Where to start to build a booth?

[fredthe]

I and my SM have been discussing it and we think that this would be best, we aren't even liking the booth idea much anymore xD We actually think this would look and operate for out needs even better then a booth.

Ah, the Jedi mind trick worked...

From the viewpoint of keeping idle hands off the equipment, the raised area/0.5 wall is a good start. You will probably also want some sort of cover on the equipment when not in use. A soft cover will keep the idle curious out, or maybe a wooden box to fit over each console. These could even be designed to lock to the table, if necessary.

Make building the platform as strong as possible a priority. You don't want something that's going to start creaking over time. It would be ideal if you could level the area with cement, but that's probably not practical given the constraints (budget, etc.) you're working with.

-Fred

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Jedi mind trick? : P


Yeah, We are planning on throwing just white sheets over everything when not in use. And when we get the Element, it comes with a cover designed for it : )
But I am, hoping, that people wont hop over a wall just to fiddle with something.

As for a building technique, obviously creaking would be bad, so when we get someone building it I will ask them about making the frame pretty much concrete, like make a wooden thing, not sure what to call it, in the shape of the platform and fill it with cement, once harden, you remove this wood? And then just make the half wall around the edges, cut out the spaces for the gates/doors and make or buy the doors, make stairs out of wood, get the carpet (Or what other materiel would be best for rolling on?), then finish the outside with some kind of fabric.

? Comments ?


I really can't see any codes needed to be reviewed for this as it is not enclosed, so bye bye, ventilation, fire, etc, and then to get rid of the fire egress path thing, we will build the back of the control platform about 4-5 feet from the back wall, no need to move the fire alarm pull, and since it isnt a room, no need to install electrical outlets, but just run an extension cord into a power strip or two as we do now anyways. However, I am thinking of different ways of making that better, any ideas? Something that wouldnt need a electrician but a permenant power supply to the platform? Would that violate any codes?

Thanks!

 

[philhaney]

The big deal with concrete is the price. Usually it is sold by the cubic yard, and the rates are higher than you might think ($75/cubic yard - 2008 national average). Plus, to build a platform for your booth out of concrete, you will have to cut a hole in your existing floor the size (length and width) of your booth and remove the existing concrete. Then rebar will have to be placed in the hole and coming up to the new platform before concrete can be poured (this is the only safe way to anchor your new platform to your existing (sloping) floor that I know of. A contractor or someone else on CB might know of a cheaper way.) And believe me, the cost of the demolition and removal of the old will far outstrip the cost of pouring new.

Stick with a nice wooden platform with a 1" plywood deck, and have your contractor strap (or otherwise anchor) it to the floor in a manner prescribed by your local building code. This can be "creakproofed" fairly easily.

Take a close look at your electrical code, too. Where I am, pluging an extention cord into an existing outlet is OK with gear sitting on a table in the back of the house, as it can be said to be a temporary installation. Running an extention cord into a permanent installation (like your booth would become as soon as you built a platform and anchored it down) is strictly forbidden. We would have to run conduit and pull wire for something like that.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

philhaney,

Oh, okay, didn't realize all that was needed for concrete, so okay, wood it is.
Thanks~

Also about electrical,
Okay, I was sure if a platform like this counted as a structure or not.
Now that leads me to the question, in order to remove a electrical outlet, lengthen the wires going to it, re-wire it into the half wall of the "booth" and tape down the wires going to the outlet that run across the floor down so no tripping hazards, would we need an electrician to do that? Or would it be safe to have maintenance do it? I was thinking an electrician wouldn't be needed because we aren't adding a circuit or anything.

 

[kiwitechgirl]

Now that leads me to the question, in order to remove a electrical outlet, lengthen the wires going to it, re-wire it into the half wall of the "booth" and tape down the wires going to the outlet that run across the floor down so no tripping hazards, would we need an electrician to do that? Or would it be safe to have maintenance do it? I was thinking an electrician wouldn't be needed because we aren't adding a circuit or anything.

You can't have a socket on the end of taped-down wires - it's not like an extension cord, because you're missing the outside sheathing of the cable. If you want to move a socket you'd need to run the wires through conduit. Surely your school has an electrical contractor who can do this for you - it's not a tricky job, but needs to be done properly.

 

[philhaney]

Other than to say, "You can't do your electrical that way. It violates code and is unsafe" I can't tell you how to do it. No one else here can tell you how to do it either. Our TOS states:

The users of ControlBooth, in a effort to police themselves, have evolved the following: No discussion of "how-to" of rigging, pyrotechnics, human flight, stunt falls, weapons and electrical will be permitted. Our stock answer to these questions is always "Consult a qualified professional."

You must get an electrician to do that part so your electrical willl be to code.

I realize building and electrical codes can be a real pain in the you-know-what, but they exist to proctect you and to keep your venue from burning to the ground.

What kiwitechgirl said.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Thanks guys, sorry, I didn't know you could talk about electrical rigging here.
Well, I think that pretty much wraps it up.

I will be sure to provide pictures when it is completed, along with general pictures of our theatre.

: )

Thanks to everyone~

 

[mstaylor]

Make sure the floor joists are a proper size for the spans and use a tongue and grove plywood properly glued then either nailed or screwed. In this application I would screw it to help avoid squeaks. The electrical definitely needs an electrician, who will probably run it in the platform, so you have you have to schedule it before you top it and he can't get under it. There are metal base plates that can be shot to the floor to secure your legs. Don't scrimp on legs either.
I have 30 years in the building business, GC, as well as doing theatre and concert work both professional and non-professional.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Thanks for the info : )

lol, I was planning on a large number of legs and supports, don't want it collapsing under me : )

(Wonders if the engineering department can do electrical work as good as a electrician..Hehe, free help.)

 

[cprted]

(Wonders if the engineering department can do electrical work as good as a electrician..Hehe, free help.)

If they aren't certified electricians, it doesn't matter what quality of work they're able to produce.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Yeah, Figured that : )

Great Our plans seem to be shaping up nicely now. We need roughly $8,600 for everything we are planning on this coming year. Also, I guess the new assistant principle is becoming, the principal, and she is a theatre major, go figure So I am going to ask her if I may host a fund raiser and give her, the school, a share and keep the rest to find anything for the theatre.

And I know how to get people seeling, not iPod Sweaters, lightup goggles and stuffed animals like the find raisers are like

Not to mention I would sell to ever house in town

 

[museav]

Just to mention some things that recently came up on a project I have, one of the first issues is what your are building on top of. I don't know if the existing structure is on grade or over something, but someone such as a Structural Engineer should be confirming that whatever is there can handle any new loads you may be placing on it, not just people and equipment but also the new structure itself. You may also have to have someone sign off on the design of the structure you build. ADA compliance should probably also be checked.

If the structure used for the platform is permanent and creates a cavity underneath then you may have to deal with that, I have seen people required to install sprinkler systems under some taller stages.

On the electrical, make sure you are providing sufficient and appropriate power. Typically a booth would have more than one circuit serving it, probably at least three (lighting, sound and general use). As Phil said, you can't use extension cords for permanent power provisions. Consider cabling paths and access for the future.

I am very concerned that you are considering constructing anything like this without any professional design. There are likely to be permitting and other aspects that will require input from licensed design professionals. If your intent is to give something to the school, then give them something they can be proud of and use for years to come, not something someone else has to deal with or tear out in just a few years.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Hello museav, Thanks for the response : )

Well the area where the structure would be built is on a very very (Opposite of steep?) grade, but would need some sort of brace for the front and what not. The floor is concrete, holes may need to be filled though if they arise an issue, since we would take a row or two of seas out to put the platform in, but maybe these holes will prove helpful to support the structure? I don't know anything about building, so I'm not sure if they could be used or not.

The cavity underneath would be about 1-2 feet high, so I think that will be fine.

We run all of our equipment on two outlets, and they might even be on the same breaker, although not one thing else uses the circuit, except maybe one or two outlets on the stage. Our dimmers and amps are backstage, so what we load onto these two outlets is, the light board, sound board, CD mixer, EQer, and 8 wireless mic receivers. I will get the wattage of everything and see how much power is fed to the two outlets.

And of course we would have a proffesional desighn and building, but it might be built, MIGHT MIGHT, havnt even talked to the principal about it yet, be built by the engineering department students, who would be over saw by the engineering department's head staff, who are, engineers.

Electrician's job SHOULD be very simple, although you know something always has to come up : P Just removing a power outlet, installing it into the platform, run the wires through like, 10 feet of conduit/tubing and re-wire the outlet.

Building should be fairly simple, Just a guess, no experience in that area.

 

[Soxred93]

Well the area where the structure would be built is on a very very (Opposite of steep?) grade

Shallow? .

 

[museav]

The cavity underneath would be about 1-2 feet high, so I think that will be fine.

Yep, and the people who built the Tacoma Narrows Bridge Tacoma Narrows Bridge (1940) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the Teton Dam Teton Dam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and the St. Francis Dam St. Francis Dam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia all thought they would be fine right up until they weren't fine. Seriously, you may well be right but you need to have someone qualified verify your assumption.

We run all of our equipment on two outlets, and they might even be on the same breaker, although not one thing else uses the circuit, except maybe one or two outlets on the stage. Our dimmers and amps are backstage, so what we load onto these two outlets is, the light board, sound board, CD mixer, EQer, and 8 wireless mic receivers. I will get the wattage of everything and see how much power is fed to the two outlets.

This is a good example of the potential issues. While the total wattage of your equipment is important, so is how the power is handled. You typically do not want everything that might be at FOH on the same circuit and if you are building this for the long haul then it makes sense to plan for the future and do it right. In addition, with your building a wall code may require some 'general purpose' power to be located in that wall. Code also requires power to be based not on what you have plugged in but rather on what might realistically be connected. These considerations beyond your immediate needs are where some professional expertise and planning may be required.

And of course we would have a proffesional desighn and building, but it might be built, MIGHT MIGHT, havnt even talked to the principal about it yet, be built by the engineering department students, who would be over saw by the engineering department's head staff, who are, engineers.

Your Engineering staff may be licensed Professional Engineer's but they may not. I know that the terms "Engineer" or "Engineering" are often used in regards to facilities and systems operations by those without any particular license or qualifications. However, when addressing design and construction, especially when potentially affecting life safety, this references licensed Engineers and Contractors. If you do have licensed Structural Engineers, Electrical Engineers and Architects on staff then they might be able to help you and should probably already be involved.

Electrician's job SHOULD be very simple, although you know something always has to come up : P Just removing a power outlet, installing it into the platform, run the wires through like, 10 feet of conduit/tubing and re-wire the outlet.

Building should be fairly simple, Just a guess, no experience in that area.

And that's often the catch, the little unforeseen things that end up doubling the cost or causing problems. For example, how do you plan on physically getting from the existing outlet to the platform? Might you have to open up the wall, pull up the aisle carpeting, trench the aisle and then fix everything back up? Has anyone verified that you can add an outlet or relocate the existing outlet without exceeding the capacity of the existing circuit? Will they allow wood construction or require that the wood be treated or that the 'shell' enclosing it have a specific fire rating? Any of these could significantly affect the construction cost and/or time.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but this thread is now addressing electrical work and building structure is similar to rigging, both of which are topics that are not to be discussed here. The only direction offered regarding the physical implementation of the construction should be to seek the help of qualified professionals.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Well I simply meant, you said some high platforms need sprinklers beneath them, and 1-2 with a sprinkler under it?

Their are two outlets at the back of the house, so the side one can always be open for general purpose, and I do believe the theater was designed so both of those, or one of them, is the only thing on its circuit, I will doubt check that as well.

Yeah, I would have to ask if we have anyone working for the district, most likely though we will be contacting a local wood and construction company in town to build and supply the wood.

Like I said, I don't really know what the electrician would have to do. If it is possible to do it, but like some mentioned, it may inflict with the Egress Path code. So if it is passable, the back of the platform will be right up to the wall, so the conduit/piping would just run out of the wall and under the platform. If we cant sneak by with "blocking" (I don't know if the pathway is considered as a means of emergency crossover or not, will check that out.) the rear crossover, then I am not to sure on what they would need to do to get power over the few feet from wall to platform, probably get a thin conduit and have it attached to the rug and place a "Watch your Step" sign. Because pulling up the floor isn't very practical as it is concrete. But if we have to we have to.


Also, we might not have to even have the structore braced for the slope, because now that I am thinking about it, the floor doesnt slope until the third or fourth row, (Hopes I am right). So construction might be a tad easier.

 

[philhaney]

Well I simply meant...

Yeah, I would have to ask...

Like I said, I don't really know...

Also, we might not have to...

I'm with museav and everyone else who has responded to your posts in this thread.

We're not trying to discourage you. We want you to succeed, and build something nice for your school's theatre, as well as leave a legacy from your class.

We just want to make sure you dot all your "i"s and cross all your "t"s.

 

[tjrobb]

Here's what I can remember of the codes I have used:
Less than 4' clear space under a level makes it a platform and does not normally require sprinklers. One exception is where the space created is combustible (namely, made of materials that burn)
Do you need an electrician? A good way to answer that is: do you need to turn off the breaker to perform the work? In your case, yes, you do. There are some cases where an electrician may not be needed even though you have to turn off the breaker, but this isn't one of them. They will need to do load calculations and other fun things, some of which the engineers may not be able to do.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Thanks guys : ) Well, of course, as I said, I am just responsible for getting it started, but once I hand the school the design then its their responsibility to get it done. So I am not handling the building and contractors etc, I will just be there supervising/watching and giving suggestions and what not.

So now I suppose the new topic is,

Any suggestions for our platform?
Any features we should consider?

 

[mstaylor]

If you have a raised platform make sure you use carpet. Put as much power in it as you can on different circuits. You will have a light board, sound board, possible followspot, a computer, maybe a headset base station. Lots of things to plug in so you need circuits.