Where to start to build a booth?

[museav]

Glass in the windows that can be removed knocks out your freedom aspect, because you cant talk when your open to the house anyway.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but you seem to be saying that your being able to talk freely is more important than hearing what the audience hears or getting a good mix. Having a SM where they can't be heard when they call cues makes sense, but how much talking do the sound and light board operators normally have to do during an event? Sorry if I misunderstood.

Having stuff dead center is a good call, but usually you want Audio world there, and lighting world off to the side a bit.

Especially with stereo or multi-channel sound systems, having the FOH mix position a bit off center is actually better than it being dead center. Especially if the system is not properly designed, installed or adjusted, what you hear dead center can be quite different than what the majority of the audience hears off to either side. The FOH position being dead center, and in fact where it is in general, is often more a factor of aesthetics and what space is practical to use than it is of that being technically preferable.

 

[shiben]

Brad, I was responding to a comment listed earlier, as one of the benefits of the booth was to be freedom to chat during shows. I was pointing out that you cant really do that anyhow if you can mix in the booth.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but you seem to be saying that your being able to talk freely is more important than hearing what the audience hears or getting a good mix. Having a SM where they can't be heard when they call cues makes sense, but how much talking do the sound and light board operators normally have to do during an event? Sorry if I misunderstood.


Especially with stereo or multi-channel sound systems, having the FOH mix position a bit off center is actually better than it being dead center. Especially if the system is not properly designed, installed or adjusted, what you hear dead center can be quite different than what the majority of the audience hears off to either side. The FOH position being dead center, and in fact where it is in general, is often more a factor of aesthetics and what space is practical to use than it is of that being technically preferable.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with me, but communication between light and sound op is important to us here at my school, because there is only 4 people running the show, me, the light op, master electrician, stage manager etc. etc, the sound op, running soundboard, mixer, CD player, EQ and wireless mics etc. Backstage manager, relys messages between the light and sound op to the director, supervises the curtains, dimmers, amps, etc. And the directors. Doing ques and whatever else directors do.

 

[rwhealey]

Yeah, but that's what an intercom is for.

 

[icewolf08]

Disclaimer: This is an unusually long post for me, but I think that it is valuable information. it is by no means meant to be harmful or offensive to anyone. It is only my personal opinion. As such, please feel free to take it to heart or disregard it. I will not be offended if you don't agree with what I am saying.

Let me chime into this discussion. First of all, every high school senior who does theatre in this country feels exactly the same as you, they want to give back to the school and make some lasting impression. It is a wonderful idea, and it is one of those "last hurrah" attempts to solidify the legacy that you think you have. I hate to break it to you, and I certainly mean no offense to any of the high school students on CB, but it is just a symptom of the "big fish in a small pond" syndrome. Don't get me wrong, every single one of us who got into this business in high school went through the same thing. Every one of us thought that we were the sh*t when we were seniors, and then life kinda hits you in the face and it sucks.

We all "knew" exactly what our theatres needed. We "knew" how to do all kinds of things like wire up equipment or build scenery. Some of us actually did, and some of us just learned the way that it had been done in our schools for years which turned out to be totally wrong and unsafe (but those schools probably still do it the same now).

I work for a professional theatre that operates under an educational institution. it is amazing the bureaucracy that you have to deal with when you want to get almost anything major done. This is just the way that educational institutions work. It is even more problematic in a public institution. On that note, building anything of a permanent nature in a public building (like a high school), no matter how small and insignificant you think it might be, will have miles of red tape and hoops to jump through. Even if you plan to do all the leg work from design, to funding, etc., there are so many people that have to be involved in a project of that nature that odds are you will never be able to achieve it in the time you have left at school.

Even if you buy a prefabricated structure, they are not designed to be freestanding. You still need to actually do renovation work to install prefabricated rooms. Odds are, even with a prefab structure you will still ned to hire some sort of contractor or at least construction crew. This of course is not to mention that most likely there are union rules that apply to work like this in a public building which would make it almost impossible to be a DIY project.

There is a reason that most class gifts don't consist of construction projects for the school. It is inevitably impossible for such project to be completed on time, within budget, and the way you really want it to happen. Does this mean that you can't give a meaningful, lasting gift that future students will continue to enjoy for years to come? No. It just means that you have to pick your battles. Construction projects, probably not going to happen.

All that being said, DON'T GET DISCOURAGED. It is possible to make changes (it is just easier if you own the building that you want to change). The type of project you are proposing is something that is totally possible to do. You have to have the right support for the project (i.e. enough parents/taxpayers to make an impact) and you have to have a plan. The plan has to include specifications (as mentioned in an earlier post), a proposal for funding, reasons for the project, etc. Odds are the proposal will have to be voted on my the city school board. Then it will have to be put up for bid. Then it will get designed. At some point it will get built, and inevitably you will end up with a bill that is at least twice as much as what you wanted to pay.

If you really want to know the ins and outs of building for educational institutions, talk to gafftaper. He recently worked on a renovation at the school he works for. It is not always pretty and it is never easy.

From all of the threads you have started, it seems that there you have some much more feasible goals outside of building a booth. You talk about wanting to put in a new lighting console. This is something that is an achievable goal for a class gift. It will be a lot easier to raise the funds and put in (donate) a lighting console than it will be to build a booth. While everyone who walks into the building may not notice, it is still a worthwhile gift. It also doesn't have nearly as many strings and red tape attached to it that a construction project does. By the same token, putting in a nice, real coms system is another easy to achieve goal for a gift (though it may be more expensive than a lighting console).

In the end, you have to consider funding. Raising money for a class gift is not easy. You are talking about projects that total in the tens of thousands of dollars range. Even in a very well off city, that is a nigh on impossible goal for one senior class to raise. Many college classes can't even raise money on that scale for a class gift. It is good that you are researching the project and that you have so much zeal to push ahead with it, but you need to take all of the things that we have been saying and put this project in perspective. It is just not as easy as it seems like it should be. We are here to help you and we want to see you succeed, but you have to trust us when we recommend things to you. We have a lot of very experience professionals as well as educators here. Combined we probably know most of the ins and outs of almost every aspect of the industry from the smallest school theatre to the largest professional company. So please let us help you out.

 

[museav]

Brad, I was responding to a comment listed earlier, as one of the benefits of the booth was to be freedom to chat during shows. I was pointing out that you cant really do that anyhow if you can mix in the booth.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for any misunderstanding on my part.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with me, but communication between light and sound op is important to us here at my school, because there is only 4 people running the show, me, the light op, master electrician, stage manager etc. etc, the sound op, running soundboard, mixer, CD player, EQ and wireless mics etc. Backstage manager, relys messages between the light and sound op to the director, supervises the curtains, dimmers, amps, etc. And the directors. Doing ques and whatever else directors do.

I typically don't see that much communication occurring between the light and sound ops or even from the light or sound ops during shows. And communications from the light and sound ops to the Director during a show would be even less common. Might you currently not having any production communications system or your functioning as both light op and SM be affecting your thoughts regarding a booth?

This brings up a point to perhaps expand on icewolf's great post. As an 'outsider' in most projects I often find that while the input of specific users can be of great value, in the case of many facilities, and especially educational venues, it can also be problematic. Put simply, and hopefully not offending anyone, I often have to remind people that they are effectively only borrowing the space. An instructor may be in a classroom for a semester and then moved to another building (or be at another school), a student may be there four years and then move on, the head of a department may retire and be replaced next year. And the next person using that space or deciding the direction of the programs for it may have a totally different perspective and way of doing things. You are usually not building something just for the current users but also for those who may come after them and this can be a factor in many decisions. This is where broad (not necessarily just in years but in scope and range) experience and being able to step back and take a 'bigger picture' perspective can often be beneficial.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Cost to build a booth?

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I was wondering if someone could answer this,

Well, I have spoken to the principle and she has asked me of a rough estimate on how much a contractor might charge to build a booth.

She likes the idea, she is a theatre major, go figure xD

I didn't know what to tell her, I cant imagen the actual structure being a drastic amount, but I understand we need some minimal electrics etc etc. So, if anyone could give you know, a just rough general estimate on how much a booth with the following specs would typicaly cost.
She just doesnt want to go ahead on bids until she was prepared to know how muhc it should cost and what not.

So,
It would be built as like, another room inside the house, in the rear, a door on either side, raised on a platform a foot or so, the structore will need a brace kind of setup in the front as the room does slope down. There be two large sliding windows int he front covering most of the front wall, at counter height to the top, and then two smaller windows on the sides next to the doors, and glass, see through doors.
As for electrical hookups we would need two power outlets (We use surge protectors for everything) And one or two dimmable lights inside the booth, and thats pretyt much it, except if codes require an AC unit.

Thanks ; )

Again I know its hard to just guess on something like this, but f someone can just give me a very general average price.

 

[mstaylor]

Re: Cost to build a booth?

A couple of questions.
1. Where are you? Different areas have widely different price ranges for carpentry.
2. What size booth?
3. Why the side windows and glass doors. The glass doors will add a fair amount more than wood doors.
4. Is there a sprinkler system in the room and would there be any existing heads in the area of the booth or would the system have to be reworked?

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Hey mstaylor,

1. We are located in Central Massachusetts.

2. If you look at the first post that would be about right. This is just a guess, I haven't measured anything but about 8-10 feet wide (Does that sound right?)
And 4-6 deep. There would be a counter also installed (If it costs to much we will put put in tables) to put equipment on at the bottom of the windows which I am thinking about 2.5-3 feet deep and the entire width of the room.

3. I guess we dont need glass doors, but I was just saying the side windows so we could out the side of the booth, even though it isnt really needed I guess. Its just that we have a very small number of people working the show, but I suppose we dont need it and wood door and no side widnwos would be fine.

4. I don't believe there is any sprinklers inside the theater at all, I do know there is a fire alarm pull box in the rear of the house and on stage, along with the fire curtains pull, but no sprinklers. So the sprinklers wouldn't need to be re-worked. And the pull box is off to the left side main entrance, so I believe that it wont be int he way, i anything the booth might be a little off center, but I think it will clear it.

(You don't know how many times I have gotten chills when I accidentally leaned back on the box before while standing up : P)

 

[mstaylor]

A couple of thousand would be a WAG.( Wild ass guess) A lot depends on local codes, local wages and field conditions. One possibility is to ask your local vocational school to look at it. In our area they will do work charging only materials.

 

[cprted]

You actually need to contact a contractor or two and ask them what they would charge to build what you want.

 

[museav]

A couple of thousand would be a WAG.( Wild ass guess) A lot depends on local codes, local wages and field conditions. One possibility is to ask your local vocational school to look at it. In our area they will do work charging only materials.

Quite likely a fair bit more than that. Any construction may take pulling permits, etc. which means formal drawings and so on, it can quickly snowball. And if it like many schools and institutions, there may be a dollar amount above which the work has to go to bid which could mean first having to generate Bid Documents. If the school has a General Contractor they work with then it may be best to start by going to them and seeing if they can provide a 'ballpark' number just to give you some idea.

 

[fredthe]

Are you planning for an open top, or will there be a ceiling in the booth? If it's fully enclosed you will probably need to worry about Lighting, HVAC, Fire Suppression, and whatever else the local building codes require. Additionally, if it's enclosed, you will need some sort of ventalation.

You might want to do a sketch of the space, and then talk to a couple of contractors to get an idea of cost. Also, watch the depth of the space, presumably you want to be able to walk behind someone seated at the desk.

Just to make sure, you are still planning on having the sound board outside the booth, right? I still think you'd do better with a leveled-off open area, with some way to secure the equipment. I worry that you are persuing this to get a "clubhouse", rather than trying to get the best out of your space.

-Fred

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Thanks for the reply's guys, I was starting to get worried about the people telling me at school "..its gonna be like 30,000 dollars.." I was like "..0_0.." And assumed they where wrong, I understand codes etc, but we aren't building a house

So anyways, back to your responses,
It would be nice to be enclosed, but hey if it knocks off a few thousand by all means open top, and then sound op can be inside, but I was also thinking something like this, it just kind of crossed my mind while reading your posts, it would like, blow the price down dramatically and might not even require a contractor.

I'm pictured a raised platform, a foot or so with steps on either side, and then a "half-wall" all the way around, that pesky fire alarm pull might not even have to be moved if it is still accessible in open air.

Same dementions, bit a bit more depth another few feet, any estimates on this? I am assumign there would be no need for a contractor if the groudns department can do it correctly, I am picturing a wooden, or steel frame to start, then covering floor with some kind of roll out vinyle or whatever you make floor out of, Dont ask me : P Or carpet or, whatever. Staple it around around the edges, and I dont know if it comes pre made if so, would probobly get the half wall pre made and bracket, or how ever you would mount it, around the edge of the platform, and leave two spots for lockable gates, and if theres extra money, then build a countertop in the front, if not, just bringing in a table.

Any estimats : )

Me and my (Dont lecture me about the big fish small pond about when I said "my" crew, I AM in charge of the schools theatre, some may of read my other thread where it came up. And I understand, I am by no meens the ebst.)
have came up with that we could make roughly make about $1500 recording and selling copies of our plays. (I udnerstand, copyright, all our plays we purchase with re-production and selling rights, or ones with free rights, because useally the drama department does it themselfs.)

Maybe 1,500 would cover this platform type thing? Well, probobly a bit more.

But either way this litlte platform I am thinking would safe us loads of money for the new light board we pretty much need now :/.

 

[cprted]

Mill, nobody here can give you anything more than a shot in the dark. I could tell you you'll be able to do it for $2200, but I really have no idea. You can't go into your principal's office with a "quote" from someone off the internet who you've never met, has never seen your space, lives X thousand miles away, and--in my case--is in a foreign country.

If you're going to get someone else to do the work, find a possible someone and ask them to give you a quote.

If you're going to DIY, you need to come up with a design and then price out the materials (assumeing free student labour, which in a school environment may not be allowed).

This of course does not even touch upon building code and permitting issues.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Cprted,
That was a response to the open mini stage idea right?

Well now that my idea has changed and we might not need to higher someone I will talk to the principal about it and see if the grounds crew has some oft he materials needed, if we can get the "free" (For the theatre) labor and what codes would need to be followed, most likely cutting the list down dramatically.

Thanks everyone~

PS
I'm sure she will be more apt for this idea, it will save her "wallet" and increase my view of new equipment

 

[fredthe]

I'm pictured a raised platform, a foot or so with steps on either side, and then a "half-wall" all the way around, that pesky fire alarm pull might not even have to be moved if it is still accessible in open air.

YES! That's what several of us have been trying to tell you all along

A lot of the cost of any construction project isn't just the materials and labor, it's the architect, engineering (for HVAC, Electrical, etc.) Permits, Inspections, etc. By scaling back your project, you may avoid much of this, though it will depend on local codes, etc. You'll need to work with the school on this.

Building a raised platform is pretty straightforward, make sure it's well anchored to the floor. Also make sure the flooring is heavy (3/4" or 1" plywood) You don't want it to shake or thump when you walk on it.

For the half-wall, I'd do standard 2x4 (maybe 2x6) with drywall construction. The outside drywall can extend all the way to the floor, and give a nice, finished look to it. Use a nice, varnished piece of wood (hardwood would be best) for the top edge.

Carpet the platform with a good industrial/office grade carpet. (You want something your chairs can roll easily on.) You want to make the floor as quiet as possible.

You can work with an electritian to get power run to the 1/2 wall, where you need it.

I would expect materials for this to run in the $1,000-$2,000 range, +/- 3dB You'll need to work with the school as to if you'd be allowed to provide the labor, or if an outside contractor would be required.

-Fred

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

: ) Thank you Fred.

I and my SM have been discussing it and we think that this would be best, we aren't even liking the booth idea much anymore xD We actually think this would look and operate for out needs even better then a booth.

I will speak with the principal about it, she will be very pleased I am sure, and at only 2-3 thousand we can definitely do that, Me and the sound op can come up with at least 1.5k by selling DVD's of the play alone.

I'll see if we can have grounds do the construction, would save a bit. Or even give the engineering department a job : ) Even have a plache on the side for them : P

 

[Footer]

Wasn't the point of this to secure the equipment? Unless you do a roll top your back to where you began. I would look back at roll top desks if you are not going to build a secure room. You could also just look into keeping the auditorium secure, but that can be harder then it sounds in school environments.

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Well, I did not mean secure as in theft, I am no worried about that, I meant students touchings things. I am pretty sure they wont jump over a half wall just to fiddle with something, a big thing we have a issue with is students walking back there when no one is there supervising and either messing up the EQ or playing with the light board.

So the thread really isnt much about saftey of our equipment.