Worklight recommendations

[GageStryker]

Hey guys!

I"m dealing with having to put in some more worklights for my stage and wondering what you would recommend for options.

Obviously, CRI and beam characteristics aren't a big deal, the big deal is cheap, long life, relatively efficient lighting.

I'm placing the fixtures on my FOH 1 bar, mostly because access to the overstage bars is a... pain (our architecht thought to provide 4 electrics worth of 30 circuits apiece overstage, but on a fixed grid with no way to access them short of renting a 40' lift and clearing all the set).

So small physical profile is important, as is long life. Right now I'm looking at putting up some old PAR cans with MFL and WFL lamps, but I'm wondering if I'm missing out on a better long term solution (I'd like to bump up the 800 hrs bulb life from a PAR lamp to something higher if possible. I've worked with the ETC S4 PARs and long life bulbs and had good experiences [ just don't use them for anything you need the higher color temperature]). {Too many brackets}

I've looked at and rejected metal halide and other ballast based lamps based on the fixture size and rewiring needed, although they're much more efficient.

Throw from FOH 1 to the deck is 45'.

 

[Dionysus]

T5 fluorescent fixtures are extremely efficient (WAY more efficient than the old T12s or even newer T8s) and have a VERY small horizontal profile. (IE they are really bloody skinny)... They can light a large area effectively (so can T8s), provide a much more flicker free light than traditional T12 fluorescents...

Fluorescents I find are a very effective work light (just not T12, they annoy me) since they take up much less room than Metal-Halide, Mercury Vapour or other such fixtures. The T5 and T8 lamps last a lot longer than T12s as well, and they come in different colour temperatures depending on your preference.

I'd get them up as high as you can out of the way... And of course I recommend that you get a licenced electrician to install them. Typically I'd run 1/2" or 3/4" EMT in the highest reaches, with a junction box where every fixture goes, and use tech or AC90 to wire to the fixture. This allows for a very flexible setup electrically. (only one cable to each fixture, is very nice... Plus you can easily add/remove/move fixtures later).

 

[SteveB]

I'd buy some used PAR56 cans and uses these lamps:

PAR56 : Light Bulbs at Bulbman.

500w (or 300), any of the range VNSP thru WFL, 4000 hrs.

I'd use wides all around and take all the coverage, so if a lamp goes, you might get coverage from adjacent units

 

[shiben]

I agree with Dionysis on this one. Less shadows, more diffuse light, and for the same power as a bunch of PARs, you get a lot more lights. Unless they need to be dimmed, I would go with fluorescent tubes

 

[Footer]

What are you plugging them into? Unless you feel like swapping out your dimmer for a non dim or get florescent fixtures made to dim I would stay away from florescent fixtures. If you are using a standard dimmer, either Par Cans, small cyc fixtures, or a few scoops. Scoop lamps are the cheapest thing out there. 5-6 bucks per lamp. Thats what I use on my stage. It takes 4 scoops to light my stage. A lamp lasts 5-6 months.

I have also used yoked out R40's for worklights. That works pretty well. If you do decide to go with fluorescents (which I can not stand florescent light on stage) be sure to get full caged fixtures and find some way of mounting them that does not involve chain.

There are also some interesting LED products out there specifically for this application.

 

[GageStryker]

I like the idea of fluorescents, in terms of energy savings. We already have quite a few installed in the wings, but I'm finding that even with reflectors and a huge amount of tubes, I'm getting barely enough light down at floor level...

right now we've got 32 tubes from a 25' trim covering an enclosed 3 sides wing that's about 15' x 30'. If I wanted to cover the stage at the same level (65' x 90') from a 45' trim height, we're looking at... 416 tubes, assuming that there's no spill into the house (which there will be) and assuming the light doesn't get diffused before it gets to the stage (suspicion: very shiny electrics and very dim stage). The install cost for 416 fixtures, even in banks of 4 or 8, is a little ridiculous. Even giving that I'd only have to supplement our current solution, even a quarter of that is a little steep.

To give you an idea of the original solution, we're working right now with a pair of improperly installed 750W metal halide lights in an architectural flood fixture from the backstage catwalk L and R sides (it would be the grid in other theaters, but we don't have a fly system). Even with the directionality, we're losing a LOT of light through electrics, etc, before it gets to useful at the stage. One option is to install two more of the same fixtures, but we're running into sourcing fixtures for the bulbs.

Ideally, I'd wish that the architects had installed some hi - bay fixtures up top, but I can see why they didn't: Access up there is a PAIN to do maintenance.

Edit: To Footer: Scoops are a great idea - except up in Canada, freight costs make scoop lamps obscene - I pay about $40 - $80 per CDN depending on the price of gas. That and GE isn't making new ones, so prices are going up on current stock (although it's a great bulb to play the "I've got a big idea" over your head game with).

 

[Syphilis]

Be very careful about fluorescents. Make sure they don't flicker at the same rpm as any of the saws you have, because apparently they'll look like they're still when they're spinning. Mayhaps this is a myth, I've never seen it, but watch out.

 

[Footer]

Be very careful about fluorescents. Make sure they don't flicker at the same rpm as any of the saws you have, because apparently they'll look like they're still when they're spinning. Mayhaps this is a myth, I've never seen it, but watch out.

WHAT? Every single shop I have worked in with the exception of one was all fluorescents and I have never seen this.

 

[venuetech]

LED Floodlights, 90VAC-to-264VAC, Architectural & Landscape - LEDtronics - 12053
This looks interesting as an possible LED solution.

in the $200 price range

 

[Les]

LED Floodlights, 90VAC-to-264VAC, Architectural & Landscape - LEDtronics - 12053
This looks interesting as an possible LED solution.

in the $200 price range

There is a similar solution to this but it is fluorescent. We carry them at Lowe's for $40 a pop.

Similar to this, in a bronze metal body. Very bright "daylight" color temperature.

 

[Footer]

As far as the scoop lamp thing goes, I just bought a case of scoop lamps and they are now branded Athalon. So, if you can't find the GE variety try to find an Athalon dealer in your area. The annoying thing about this is all this stuff is made in China. After it comes 4,000 miles it can go another 300 north?

 

[GageStryker]

LEDs. Not. Bright. Enough. For general lighting. Yet.

I think I'll spend my money on LED color mixing fixtures for setpieces before I buy them for work lights.

Although we do have an LED trouble light in the shop here, and it's quite directional. At $45 a pop, I'd only need to string up a couple hundred for work lights. $9000 worklight system? Most excellent.

And then replace all the batteries.

And find a way to turn them on and off from 45 feet below.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Source 4 PAR's with Extra Wide Flood Lenses (XWFL) and 575 LONG LIFE lamps. Gafftaper convinced me this was a great solution. I've always liked scoops and still do, but footprint wise, the S4 par is great. I really like the color temp of Halogen for stage works as compared to Fluorescent, that's just me.

If you have old scoops or strips you can repurpose I'd use them first, but if buying new, I'd go for a smaller footprint.

ALSO look into single-cell L&E Runt Cyc's, another tiny footprint light with great output.

 

[derekleffew]

Source 4 PAR's with Extra Wide Flood Lenses (with a 45' throw MFL would be more appropriate) and [-]575 LONG LIFE[/-] HID lamps.

Or L&E Worklite™.

 

[Dionysus]

Another option I've seen at venues is mixed fixture types. Having some fluorescents for general white, better light up high with other types of fixtures like floods for lighting up the deck-level of the stage.
And for fluorescents why would you want to dim them anyways? They're work lights, not house lights or show lights. I'd have them switched normally with 3-and-4-way switches (major backstage entrances, booth, etc).

 

[Studio]

It wasn't clear weather or not you have a fly system, but at my theatre we have 6 or 7 fluorescents on each of our three electrics, and they work quite well. We also have this to control them.



/hijack By the way does anyone know the maker of this control system, as I am curious /end hijack

 

[derekleffew]

... By the way does anyone know the maker of this control system, as I am curious ...

Looks pretty generic. Most likely, the manufacturer of the stage lighting control system OR the electrical contractor original to the space; but not ETC, Strand, or Leviton/Colortran, as they're pretty consistent about plastering their name over everything.

 

[Les]

Interesting panel. That brushed faceplate reminds me of the recently defunct ALM (Architectural Lighting Management) Systems or EDI wall stations. However, both would have the name on the front. If it was EDI it would have the stylized ED logo.

 

[LDAnne]

First, I have a few comments about some of the responses to this thread:


Regarding Dionysus’ first response – T5 & T8 fluorescent lamps can be equally efficient depending on what lamp & ballast combination you use. Most “green” government lighting criteria currently require “super T8” lamps for all linear fluorescent luminaires. The “Super T8” is a 4’ 32w 3100 lumen T8 lamp with 82+ CRI. Also, flicker in fluorescent lamps comes from old magnetic ballasts, not the gauge of the lamp. Because T12 lamps are mostly found in old luminaires with magnetic ballasts, you are used to seeing them flicker.


Regarding Syphilis’ response – Fluorescent magnetic ballasts flicker at twice the supply frequency and do create a stroboscopic effect that can be perceived. A circular saw would have to rotate more than 200 times per second to appear "still" under old fluorescent technology. Electronic ballasts are sold in all new interior rated fluorescent luminaires and they flicker thousands of times per second, so fast that they cannot be perceived with the naked eye.


In response to Gagestryker’s querry:


I usually specify surface mount linear fluorescent luminaires directly to the grid for stage work light, but you don’t own a lift to reach the grid. However, if you installed Super T8 fluorescent lamped (Philips F32T8/ADV830/ALTO or equal) luminaires with programmed rapid start ballasts to the grid, you would need to rent a lift every 36,000 hours of fixture use. That works out to 4.1 years of 24/7 use or 8.2 years of 12 hours per day use. With more average stage work light usage, you could easily go 20 years between lamp changes. Isn’t there a chance the space would rent a lift every 8-20 years to do maintenance to the rigging & lighting?


Alternately, from the FOH 1 pipe you may want to go with a CFL flood that doesn’t take up too much real estate, I presume you have a few stage lights on this pipe too Maybe something like the Lightolier 8277EBK CFL track luminaire with clamp on monopoint would be an inexpensive easy to install solution?

Cheers,
Anne Cheney, LC, LEED AP, IES, DLF
NYC

 

[ship]

Perhaps I’m a bit old school or lamp nerd but I still don’t feel fluorescents or LED’s are there yet. LED wash fixtures even list CRI yet? How are you going to paint a set under work lights unless it’s under say at least 95% CRI index conditions as will be the case at least under normal stage lighting?

85% at mostly best for a fluorescent is ok but not great - this much less you have long banks of them hung in the grid blocking needed lighting positions or scenery flown in. LED I agree with not bright enough yet or in adding high enough CRI yet. (Something mostly forgotten in listing the specifications.) Believe me, between even high CRI fluorescents and LED’s that’s about all I’m building custom fixtures to lately but I know better and it’s especially for a work light - something I couldn’t paint a set properly under.

Been around a few years and made many security lighting RSC / double ended 500w fixtures fixed to a duplex 1900 box as fixed to a C-Clamp, or even done a T-fitting on it in cord out from one side and bolt from another. Totally not code and normally the fittings are plastic and break easily. Even rigged some yellow work lights to hang from a bar in the past - also crap for usefulness. Others might have similar work light proper T-3 like RSC fixtures properly made as stage work lights, but that is what I would shoot for. Can get long life lamps for such a fixture and it’s 100% CRI (color rendering index - full spectrum of color presented.)

Otherwise AeroTech, amongst other vendors are making incandecscent lamps that could be used say on a Scoop if you have space for it with lamp lifes up to 20,000 hours as an incandescent lamp. Say some 10" scoops if you have room for them in the fly system, they would probably work out great. I still favor the L&E work light but a 10" scoop with such a long life say 300w lamp, in a few of them would also do the deal. This amongst other concepts.

Main thing for me is proper CRI on stage. Flourescents... even if you went T-2 in size, it’s still a fairly large channel in size and expensive the higher technology you go. LED the same in more point source in the larger the size, the more intensity for the most part. Neither as with compact fluorescents on the other hand have in my opinion crossed at least the 95% CRI ratio needed for art on the other hand.

Not doing scenery on stage... some metal halide fixtures hung from the grid are probably fine for enough lights as with supplement what ever. Art on stage in at times working on stage, I would look to the proper color rendering index type fixtures.