2 Circuits (outlets) per Dimmer

I'm dealing with a similar situation on an overhaul job right now. It's a private high school that bought a relatively new church building and all of its contents. Including the 144 Source4s and the existing dimmer system. When I did the initial walk through, I determined that the sensor racks are numbered to 196. Then three days later, I found another sensor rack behind a door. This is the same as the half rack you mentioned. It's patched for channels 197-240. And viola! I found my house lights. As far as your parallel dimmers, I've only got 6 channels in that situation. 1-4 are on both sides of the stage in stage pockets and 5 and 6 are up in the catwalk. I've been working this job for several weeks now and am constantly having to change/adapt the plot to fit the environment. I only wish I had some of the students around to help me out. I feel kinda guilty about fixing their problems while they're on vacation when I could be using it as a learning experience. Keep up the good work and let us know how it turns out!
 
As others have stated, this is or was a common configuration of repeating circuits. Maybe useful if you are doing some form of area lighting, where you might have 2 units on a dimmer anyway, both focused to one area. Not so useful for other types of plots, but it is what is is and without re-wiring your theater isn't going to change.

Not sure why you won't consider dimmer doubling, as it essentially doubles your control ability if your equipment inventory is ETC S4. You have to buy the DD two-fer, plus the 77 volt lamps, but every dimmer/address now can split in two and you can then better control your units.
 
I'm more likely to do them adjacent (1-1-2-2-3-3 rather than 1-2-3-1-2-3) because I think it's easier to keep track and they are basically a built in twofer (at lower cost, less maintenance, and no storage required compared to twofers).

While I agree that it is easier to keep track of, I think adjacent is not as usefual as patterns that separate the repeated cirucuit's outlets. Separating the repeated circuit's outlets can reduce the need for long jumpers.
 
If forced to do repeating circuits because of budget, I'd most prefer to see 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5-6-4-5-6-4-5-6-7-8-9-7-8-9 or something to that effect. Allows you to do multiple colors of high sides from both pipe ends, and gives you repeating circuits in the center optimized for down washes. Throw in a couple non-repeated circuits here and there for specials as budget allows. Seeing as I'll almost always do high sides, and almost always down washes, and that the function of my pipe ends will not often be tied up the function of my lights near center stage, that makes more sense to me than the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1-2-3-4-5-6-7 ever has.
 
1-2-3-4-5-6 1-2-3-4-5-6 is still better than 9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 which I actually did encounter in one old space.
 
Agreed. Both ends of the pipe almost never serve the same function in tandem.
 
While I agree that it is easier to keep track of, I think adjacent is not as usefual as patterns that separate the repeated cirucuit's outlets. Separating the repeated circuit's outlets can reduce the need for long jumpers.
And I hope its more useful than just a single pigtail. I have done what you suggest runs of 3 or 4 - but based on feedback from users, have gone to the pairs.

I will occasionally parallel a few odd circuits - like control room, pit, trap room, follow spot room, shop, etc. - not all but 2 or maybe 3 - where circuits are rarely used but nice to have occasionally.
 
Not to hijack, but Double Dimming is a system that ETC makes to take 1 dimmer module and run 2 lights with different intensities off of it and repeat circuiting is just a twofered circuit correct?

Essentially correct. The dimmer module in the rack is told to split the sinewave so the top half feeds one half of a DD two-fer, while the bottom half of the sine wave feeds the other half of the DD twofer, with one circuit from dimmer to outlet being shared. The maximum output voltage of a DD two-fer is 77 volts, thus the need to change to that lamp.

This method can be cost effective when you have a system with less then 256 dimmers/addresses. The console and the dimmer rack deal with DD by controlling dimmer 1 upper half as address 1 with dimmer 1 lower half responding as address 257 and this becomes the basis for the patch.

It's a common setup for tours using a lot of S4's as the multi cabling is halved. It's a bit more complicated to make work in a house with more then 256 dimmers/devices in the system.

I would persona;y skip this process I worked the OP's space and work hard to get LED's as alternatives.
 
To clarify the reasoning that systems are sometimes designed like this: think about this. The biggest cost limit in a system is typically the total number of dimmers (and the power for them). So if you're going to be limited to 96 dimmers no matter what, is it better to have each dimmer with one circuit location, or two? Or more? The repeating circuits will in some circumstances add flexibility and save cable runs, etc. (Although they do add complication in solving your circuiting plan.)

Recently in a new install that was only going to spring for 36 dimmers (yikes) I convinced them to put in an old-fashioned patch bay so I could hang lights anywhere, plug them right into a convenient circuit, and work out the two-fering in the patch bay without stringing cable through the grid. Not as good as having 192+ dimmers, but way better than having 36 circuits.
 
I had a very similar "problem" (feature?) in my theater, in a PAC built in 1987. My theory about why the choice was made to repeat circuits two or three times around the room is that at the time of construction copper was cheap but control was expensive. In those days lighting contol was AMX, which was limited to 192 channels, and I would guess that that limit was reached only in high-end (expensive) consoles. [Olde Phartes - please correct me if I'm wrong!]

The good news was that every circuit, regardless of repeating, was run individually to the dimmer racks. This meant that two years ago, when my room was upgraded from (failing) Strand CD80s to ETC Sensors, the electricians were able to separate all of those repeated circuits. The room went from an OK 140 circuits to a very workable 240 circuits (we left a few infrequently-used circuits doubled to get the install down to 2 1/2 racks).

The cost for the upgrade, including some minor rewiring, racks, 70 2.4K modules (AFMs fill the rest of the racks), 6 6K modules, two relay modules, an Ion console, 5 1-port gateways, 1 4-port gateway, a CAT-5 patch bay and a POE switch, was right around $80K. We did the CAT-5 installation in-house, adding redundant runs from the booth to the dimmer room and eight other locations around the theater for temporary DMX through the gateways.

It was a big, positive change for the room, and it made a lot of lighting designers very happy. It was quite expensive, but the cost was justified by the fact that the CD80s were failing at an unmanageable rate, and that the room was booked more than 200 days a year.

If the lighting system in your theater is generally in working condition, you're not likely to be able to convince anyone to tackle a project of this scope just to give you more design options. Instead, as others have suggested, figure out how to work with what you've got. You have two more years in the room - why not experiment with different plots and figure out what you like best, and what is most useful and/or flexible for the type of events you have?

As you move out into the world, you'll discover that every venue has limitations. Raise your hand if you've got one of those giant aprons with no lighting positions above it! How about a 12' ceiling? Eight dimmers FOH, one of which hasn't worked for a while? Strand Centuries or Altman 1KLs? Dead-hung electrics? Sketchy FOH sidelight positions that you need to climb an extension ladder to reach? This list could go on, but you get the idea.

There might be a venue out there that is exactly right because it was built for the one show that will ever be performed in it, and there was unlimited money to plan, design and outfit it, but if such a space exists it will be a long time before you (or I) get to work in there. In the meantime, be flexible. Be creative. Try something you think will work, then tweak it. Or throw it out entirely and start again. Especially over the next two years, when you don't have an employer breathing down your neck. If all goes well, you won't get that chance again!

HTH,
Jen
 
As you move out into the world, you'll discover that every venue has limitations. Raise your hand if you've got one of those giant aprons with no lighting positions above it! How about a 12' ceiling? Eight dimmers FOH, one of which hasn't worked for a while? Strand Centuries or Altman 1KLs? Dead-hung electrics? Sketchy FOH sidelight positions that you need to climb an extension ladder to reach? This list could go on, but you get the idea.

There might be a venue out there that is exactly right because it was built for the one show that will ever be performed in it, and there was unlimited money to plan, design and outfit it, but if such a space exists it will be a long time before you (or I) get to work in there. In the meantime, be flexible. Be creative. Try something you think will work, then tweak it. Or throw it out entirely and start again. Especially over the next two years, when you don't have an employer breathing down your neck. If all goes well, you won't get that chance again!

HTH,
Jen
Very well said! I've encountered all of those situations at least once in my career. While I hated them for the entire time, I look back and realize how much they made me learn and adapt. I sometimes even created better designs in the end.
 
I'm glad to hear that your situation worked out so well in the long run, Jen.
I'm slightly curious, though, about the failure of your CD80s. In my experience (and the anecdotal evidence of others on this board) the CD80 rarely fails. The electrical components are built like tanks (the control circuitry is more delicate, to be certain). What was happening that caused such catastrophic failure?
 
The exact cause is unknown to me, but they were certainly rode hard and put away wet for 25 years. Ramp card failure was an at-least-quarterly event by the last year or two, and the SSRs reached their expiration date even more frequently.

What I saw in the room was the curve would start to go a little (jumpy at one end or another), then there would be one magic value that would cause the light to blink on and off (e.g. fine at 43, blinky at 44, fine at 45) - easy enough to work around in a static cue, but dreadful in a long fade. Then the SSRs would go and the light would go out, or to full - dealer's choice.

I know that our incoming power is higher than normal (I sometimes see as high as 130v on GP receptacles), so that may have contributed, but my suspicion is that it was just 25 solid years of 200+ days of use. They held up pretty well, considering all of that!

The "salvaged" parts of my system went to another (larger) venue in the same PAC to keep his racks limping along until they can be upgraded. Big cardboard box of ramp cards, maybe 60 2.4K modules, and a couple of non-dims. Gonna be a good day for the scrap company when all of that leaves the building...

Jen
 
Interesting. That the ramp cards failed is no surprise at all. The SCRs failing at that rate is somewhat unusual in my experience. I regularly work with a CD80 system that was used at the old Guthrie theatre here in Mpls. close to 300 days a year from the mid-80s until 2007 and is now at Theatre in the Round where it sees about 150 days of use per year. There are failures but nothing at the rate you mention. Our voltages here are much more "normal", however. High voltage here is 122 and it is not unusual on cold nights and hot days for it to dip to 115-117. If I am not mistaken, the CD80 was actually designed to go into a self-protecting shut-down if the incoming voltage rose above 128 volts.
 
Again, not sure of the cause, but both systems in this building saw the same issues. The other room lost two ramp cards last week, in fact. Fortunately, it was during a week of summer camp so the lighting needs were pretty minimal and the Head Electrician had some time to diagnose and repair.

I'm very happy to have moved into the 21st century!

Jen
 
I concur that SSR failures are in my experience very rare after maybe 1 or 2 in 100 in first few months. Anyone with chokes and breakers and ssr's as robust as cd80 should consider changing card cages (and spending the rest on LED fixtures.). Dimmer system replacements at this point don't very often seem like good planning.
 
Don't know what your "patch bay" consisted of but pretty sure the total cost of say 36 dimmers and 96 circuits and a code legal patch panel exceeds the cost of a 96 dimmer rack.
Well, the dimmers were pre-existing and a big limitation was power in the building. They were retro-fitting a movie theatre into a dinner theatre. They could do the 36 dimmers without adding service.

Can't say whether the patch bay was code-legal or not, but it was designed and installed by the electrical contractor and passed inspection. The dimmers were touring style, so the patch bay consisted of conduit boxes with pigtails and Edison plugs to be patched into the outlets on the dimmers.

I don't know if this was the best, safest, or most economical solution, but it was the most of those things of any of the options they were giving me. I'm long gone from that place now, anyway.
 
... Can't say whether the patch bay was code-legal or not, but it was designed and installed by the electrical contractor and passed inspection. ...
Did it have an OCPD for each of its 96 circuits? See 2011 NEC 520.50 Road Show Connection Panel (A Type of Patch Panel).
Let's be clear as to the reason the NEC requires that "extra" circuit breaker.

Let's say a TV shoot was occurring in your theatre. The crew brought in a rack of 6kW dimmers. They plugged that male patch cable right into one of the 6kW's, using an "illegal" 20A to 50A adaptor. Then they decided to load it with 4000W of Audience light PARS, even though it is a 2400W circuit, "because they'll only be on for a few minutes".

Without that breaker, there is a possibility of overloading the building wiring and causing a fire hazard. The building wire is hidden in the walls , so we want to make absolutely sure that doesn't happen.
The "extra" circuit breakers and associated wiring is what drives the cost to more than an installed dimmer rack. A better solution might have been to install a 96way rack with 18 dual dimmer modules and 30 AFM s, and move modules as required per show. More dimmer modules could be added over time.

As for limited power in the building, http://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/?title=Collaborative-Articles:Dimmer-feeds-How-much-power-is-enough .
 

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