I Need recommendations... For well... Everything

Hi guys,

I was just given a 350k budget to completely redo our theatre's lighting systems. We have mostly theatre events as well as the occasional game show and speaker.

We have 700 seats and the stage is approximately 20m x 22m.

What do you guys think I need help with everything. What and how much. Controllers ,dimmers, lamps, gels, and whatever else you can think of.

Hope you guys can help
John
 
Definitely hire a consultant. It is impossible to gain an accurate idea of what the theater would need without seeing what infrastructure exists, the size of the venue, and what you need for events.

That being said, I personally feel I can make general recommendations. An ETC Eos-family board, a mostly LED system with a few hangable dimmer boxes (instead of a dimmer/incandescent system).

Ask your theater consultant if Eos is right for you.
 
Certainly hire a consultant. I don't know if we have any members in Israel, but I am sure someone can put you in touch with some one in the area. With regards to a console, pick what the designers that come in are most comfortable with, and what you are most comfortable with. I am not familiar with Israel, but I know Congo/Cobalt dominates in some non-US markets. There is also certainly an advantage to having a console that other people in town have so that if you have a problem, you can borrow gear from others. A consultant will definitely help you define your needs and how to do what you want in your price range. Money well spent definitely.
 
Thank you all for your advice. I will try to find a consultant. (if anyone here has one that'd be great). I personally have worked a lot with the ion and am not quite sure how it compares to the cobalt line. Most of the places I've worked in here have had MA and Compulite Consoles (I don't love the Compulite stuff)
 
Compulite is pretty much dead at this point. GrandMA would be a good way to go if it is what people know...

However, is the 350k budget US Dollars or in Shekels?

All that aside, much of it depends on what you have already. In reality, an installed dimming system of 96 dimmers can easily eat up that entire budget and leave no room for new fixtures or consoles. If you already have good power and a good number of installed circuits it could go the other way. You really need the boots on the ground to see what you actually need and what you actually want to accomplish in the end... then design the system for that.
 
Yes. A big problem in the new theater that I work at currently is that the theater manager was hired only after the money was spent on super-useful and relevent items such as a Tascam dual-cassette player/recorder of studio quality, as well as a projector in a glass room that isn't bright enough and we were uinstructed there was no way to use it for anything other than the video monitor (which itself was converting from SD to an HD signal-type and then back to SD fit for the internet, causing a .75 second delay in video but not audio). The theater also came with some installed white JBLs that cannot be amped high enough to provide any sort of house fill, even for the first two rows.

Long story short, hire someone to critically check what the salesman specs out, and make sure you get what you really need.
 
It really is high-quality, state of the art, and will never be used (so therefore will never go bad). :p
 
Developed a standard lighting plot. Use source 4's 14, 19 FOH, some source 4 pars and 36, 50 over stage. Vivid R for CYC.

Add to that about 5 right arm units
http://www.internetapollo.com/Products/View/2852.aspx
Or similar items which will give you flexibility to cover any spot on the fly.

I hope this helps.
Without knowing trim heights for electrics overstage or distances from catwalk to stage FOH, recommending 14's and 19s from FOH and 36+50 from overstage seems short sighted and unhelpful. If the electrics trim at 30' a 50 degree is going to be gigantic, if they trim at 16' a 50 degree is probably going to be a little more useful. Same thing goes with FOH, some coves are much more of a 5 degree throw than a 14 degree.
 
Without knowing trim heights for electrics overstage or distances from catwalk to stage FOH, recommending 14's and 19s from FOH and 36+50 from overstage seems short sighted and unhelpful. If the electrics trim at 30' a 50 degree is going to be gigantic, if they trim at 16' a 50 degree is probably going to be a little more useful. Same thing goes with FOH, some coves are much more of a 5 degree throw than a 14 degree.
Of course one needs all the trims and dimensions to create a plot. Each fixture has specific qualities which the OP should consider before making a final choice.
 
Yeah, don't listen to anything lwinters630 said. First of all, he/she can't know what degrees you want. Then right arms are almost never the right answer. I find them to be useless. A single good moving light fixture in far better then a handful of right arms.

I cannot know how you should spend your money without knowing the system in place, though if you can give more details about that we all might be able to give better suggestions. I do recommend a consultant, but make sure it's a consultant that consulted on a space that people are happy with and as mentioned by other that it is a consultant that does NOT work for the distributors or sales companies. You don't want someone to consult with you that will recommend buying the thing that makes them the most money instead of what makes your theatre the best.

Now, things that I will say, I would recommend either the Congo Jr. or the Ion (basically the same console with reversed syntax, both the same quality just a matter of which you like to use), whichever is more common in the area. The Grand MA is a great console, but for a house that has different designers in it is never a good option as it is so customizable it can be confusing to even an experienced programmer when stepping onto someone else's setup, and the console will eat a much larger portion of your budget the something else. As mentioned before I also don't know if the budget is USD, or how Shekels compare if it's in Shekels. I would, if it fits in your budget, recommend buying at least a half dozen wash movers, like Mac Aura's or Mac Quantums. They don't take a lot of power but both have a lot of punch and give you a lot of choices. Then, if you have a cyc or something similar I would recommend some sort of LED for that, preferably something like an Altman Spectracyc. Then if there is money left in the budget also buy a half dozen spot fixtures of some type. The profile Mac Quantums are great with low power usage and bright output. Then go ahead and make sure you have enough money to buy at least a back wash system of conventional fixtures (or good LED units) and a couple front wash systems of conventional fixtures (and/or good LED units). I would always recommend Source Four Ellipses for front light (LED or not) and either Source Four Pars or ETC D40's for LED option. Then make sure you have a bunch more fixtures for other washes.

Again, this very much depends on the infrastructure already existing as well as the size and shape of the space and the power available. Not knowing any of this it is difficult to give an exact picture. Also, every brand and fixture I have recommended should be taken as a starting point for comparison purposes when looking at units, but you should never just buy something someone else has used. Do your research, find out what is used in your area (always nice to be able to get a replacement if something happens and the local technicians and designers will know how to use it). I don't know how it works in Israel, but here I know I can always go to the local vendors and get them to demo the fixtures.

Make sure whatever you get does have enough brightness to be seen and has a good dimmer curve so they don't pop on and off (the LED units I have recommended actually do have a bit of a dimmer curve issue but they are the best LED options I have seen so far, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better one).

One problem I have seen people here make is trying to save money and getting bad units because of it. For example, I have seen QWash 560's bought instead of Auras, but they don't have a good dimmer curve and don't mix colors well. I have seen Mac 250's or American DJ movers bought instead of the expensive ones but they don't show up on top of conventional fixtures and you just throw your money away.

I hope that this helps. Best of luck!
 
I think (not calling anyone out here) that @Footer definitely has the right idea. It's hard to say without knowing what you already have to play with, and even harder to say without seeing the space...

Are moving lights great? Yes, but also not always needed, nor always warranted. I'd be afraid to spec a whole bunch (and spend a bunch) in movers, when in reality the 350,000 needs to do everything, such as provide front light, not just flash and trash.

I think, yes, 350K is a lot, but that lighting gets really expensive really fast. Go with what everyone else says, and hire someone to help.
 
Yeah, don't listen to anything lwinters630 said. First of all, he/she can't know what degrees you want. Then right arms are almost never the right answer. I find them to be useless. A single good moving light fixture in far better then a handful of right arms.

This comes off as somewhat rude, considering lwinters has literally hundreds more posts, dozens more likes, and a quick glance throughout the threads will show his/her contribution. When they are paying attention, zingers like that will get you a swift slap on the wrists from the mods, and won't do anything to endear you to the willing and knowledgeable participants on this forum. Just a friendly FYI. :)
 
This comes off as somewhat rude, considering lwinters has literally hundreds more posts, dozens more likes, and a quick glance throughout the threads will show his/her contribution. When they are paying attention, zingers like that will get you a swift slap on the wrists from the mods, and won't do anything to endear you to the willing and knowledgeable participants on this forum. Just a friendly FYI. :)

I suppose you are right that I was rude in the wording of my comment. That said, giving specific barrel sizes and recommending a piece of technology that was a flop from the start shouldn't be advice to be listened to. I may not be an active member of this forum but my 15 years of professional experience in this industry does tell me some things.
 
I think (not calling anyone out here) that @Footer definitely has the right idea. It's hard to say without knowing what you already have to play with, and even harder to say without seeing the space...

Are moving lights great? Yes, but also not always needed, nor always warranted. I'd be afraid to spec a whole bunch (and spend a bunch) in movers, when in reality the 350,000 needs to do everything, such as provide front light, not just flash and trash.

I think, yes, 350K is a lot, but that lighting gets really expensive really fast. Go with what everyone else says, and hire someone to help.

I would say that in this day anyone recommending against the purchase of movers is short sighted. 6 Mac Auras in a typical proscenium space can replace 30 par cans, all of their accessories, the need to run copper to all of them, the need for 15+ dimmers, and the power and gel needed throughout their years of service, plus the added cooling costs. The savings is remarkable and well worth it and they are much more flexible in their capabilities and provide many more tools in a designer's pocket. Similar arguments can be made for spot units but not quite as easily due to their increased cost, but you can buy a 6 way case of Mac Auras for $15,000 or less. That is less then 3 times the cost of the Source Four Par Cans alone.
 
But many people don't think about the added cost of movers in the maintenance and lamp replacement. Movers just aren't suited for everybody in every scenario which is why there's the Gafftaper method, lots of places can pick up some accessories like a sea changer, icue, or right arm and get what they are looking for and its easier and more cost effective for them. Thats why, as always, we need some more information.
 
Once you have paid for all the moving parts you are talking about your repair costs go up, and if you look at LED fixtures your lamp costs drop significantly and because of the lack of heat so do many of your repair costs. Parts don't get hot so they don't wear out as fast. And you avoid the complication of having multiple units to try to achieve the effect you really want for almost the same cost. Always better to go with the real thing IMHO.
 

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