"Array" speakers versus regular speakers and do I need a subwoofer?

[JLNorthGA]

Our playhouse has a proscenium opening that is 30' W and 16' high. The total width of the stage wall is maybe 50' max. The height from stage floor to suspended ceiling is maybe 25'. We have cinder block walls. The house is a small house (250 seats), so it is maybe 65' from the back wall to the proscenium opening. We have plays (including musicals) and concerts.

We would use the system primarily for sound effects and music before the show and during intermission. It might be used to amplify the voices of those who can't quite project (announcers, MCs and the like). Most musical groups bring in their own sound system - but if the speakers were reasonable, the acoustic groups might use it to "boost" their output.

We are in a small town (seriously - we have maybe 12,000 people in the county). The local sound guy is trying to sell us an array system. He is also trying to sell us a lot of other stuff, but that is another question.

I can mount the speakers on either side of the stage opening - not a problem.

Is there any great advantage in going for line array speakers?

Another point that was brought up was the "need" for a subwoofer. I wasn't sure about the need for one. The cost isn't that much (placement is another thing). Would a subwoofer be a reasonable purchase?

 

[Tex]

Another point that was brought up was the "need" for a subwoofer. I wasn't sure about the need for one. The cost isn't that much (placement is another thing). Would a subwoofer be a reasonable purchase?

I can't speak to your other questions, but for sound effects, I have found a sub to be invaluable. Without the sub, your audience can hear that it's thundering. With the sub, they can feel it. IMO, it also adds a "fullness" to music; even music that you wouldn't think would benefit from those lower frequencies.

 

[len]

If you buy tops that were designed to be used with subs, yes, you need subs. Some full range boxes can shake a room, but it depends on the acoustics of the room and the size and quality of the full range boxes.

As for line arrays, most of the time (not always), they're better because they can be more finely tuned to the room. The speaker boxes usually recommend specific amps and processors to be used with them, just like certain cars need specific make and model tires to get the most performance. I THINK that one brand (Nexo?) required you to buy their amps and stuff so that it all worked as one unit. Don't know if they still do that.

If you're not convinced with what the vendor is telling you, get another couple quotes.

 

[museav]

Getting into any specifics would require knowing more about the specifics of the space, the use and so on. But there can probably be some general commentary.

First, who is "the local sound guy"? Not the name of the company but what do they do and what is their experience with this type of venue and the system being recommended?

How did they arrive at their recommendation? What did you tell them you wanted? They should explain the basis for their recommendation in terms of how it supports what you have said you wanted in any case but they should definitely be able to address why they are proposing a particular speaker system when you have concerns about it. Have you asked them why they proposed what they did?

What are they recommending? Some of the issues regarding it being line arrays or the need to have subwoofers and so on are going to be very dependent on exactly what is being proposed.

 

[museav]

As for line arrays, most of the time (not always), they're better because they can be more finely tuned to the room.

Line arrays are not generally better, they are simply another potential option that are a good solution for some applications and not as good for others. In addition, many 'line arrays' are line arrays much more in a marketing sense than in a technical sense and many others are improperly applied. The reality is that line arrays are more complex than many people think and are way too often applied to applications that could be better served by other approaches. There can be other factors to consider but a 50' wide by 65' deep room with a 25' suspended ceiling, no balconies and a 30' wide by 16' high proscenium opening does not jump out as a situation where line arrays are the obvious best option. Of course factors such as whether they are proposing a two channel or 'stereo' system for the application noted may also tell a lot about how much familiarity they have with the application and how much consideration may have gone into the line array solution proposed.

The speaker boxes usually recommend specific amps and processors to be used with them, just like certain cars need specific make and model tires to get the most performance. I THINK that one brand (Nexo?) required you to buy their amps and stuff so that it all worked as one unit. Don't know if they still do that.

While Nexo does offer dedicated processors and integrated processor/amps for their speaker systems, you are probably thinking of d&b. And many manufacturers will offer recommended systems and tunings. But because no two venues or applications are exactly the same, what really matters is understanding how everything works and goes together and then how to optimize it for each application.

If you're not convinced with what the vendor is telling you, get another couple quotes.

That typically just makes it more confusing unless a) everyone is quoting on the same, well defined basis, b) the quotes are more than just equipment lists and c) the qualifications of the company are also considered.

I have been hired by numerous parties who obtained multiple bids and ended up not being able to make any sense of what was provided. In the vast majority of those cases a common factor was that there was little, much less any consistent, description of the expectations of and goals for the system provided to the companies offering quotes. If you just ask for quotes for a sound system you may get dramatically different interpretations of what that represents and none of them may actually be what you want.

You can also find many little differences that can come back to bite you. Things like comments that they assume someone else will provide all power, conduit, architectural work, etc. but don't define what that may be. Payment terms that leave little leverage to get them to complete the work. Language leaving it open for them to substitute other products. Insurance, bonding, etc. capabilities. Being able to put more people on site if needed in order to get the work done on time or to store equipment in a environmentally controlled, insured, bonded facility prior to installation on site.

The bottom line is that multiple quotes can be great but typically only if they are as 'apples-to-apples' as possible and contain sufficient information to be fully evaluated, otherwise they can actually end up making things more confusing.

 

[JLNorthGA]

Getting into any specifics would require knowing more about the specifics of the space, the use and so on. But there can probably be some general commentary.

First, who is "the local sound guy"? Not the name of the company but what do they do and what is their experience with this type of venue and the system being recommended?

How did they arrive at their recommendation? What did you tell them you wanted? They should explain the basis for their recommendation in terms of how it supports what you have said you wanted in any case but they should definitely be able to address why they are proposing a particular speaker system when you have concerns about it. Have you asked them why they proposed what they did?

What are they recommending? Some of the issues regarding it being line arrays or the need to have subwoofers and so on are going to be very dependent on exactly what is being proposed.

The local sound guy has a small store. He sells musical and sound equipment. He has never really done this sort of space before. He may have done some churches. But he is a local and his family has been here for generations.

We told him we wanted some floor mics to pick up sound for our hearing impaired system and speakers, an amplifier and a CD/MP3 player. Basic stuff.

He wants to totally wire the stage with five floor mics and three hanging mics. He wants to hang two line arrays on either side of the proscenium opening and a subwoofer to be mounted somewhere (that is listed as optional). I saw the final quote and that is about it. No real specs. He wants line arrays because they "project the sound better for our space". He was recommending TOA HX-5 speakers. http://www.toaelectronics.com/spk0027.asp

Frankly, I thought he was a bit condescending. I'm not a "sound guy" - but I have used sound equipment for years. He wasn't really listening to either myself or one of our directors.

 

[ejsandstrom]

The local sound guy has a small store. He sells musical and sound equipment. He has never really done this sort of space before. He may have done some churches. But he is a local and his family has been here for generations.

We told him we wanted some floor mics to pick up sound for our hearing impaired system and speakers, an amplifier and a CD/MP3 player. Basic stuff.

He wants to totally wire the stage with five floor mics and three hanging mics. He wants to hang two line arrays on either side of the proscenium opening and a subwoofer to be mounted somewhere (that is listed as optional). I saw the final quote and that is about it. No real specs. He wants line arrays because they "project the sound better for our space". He was recommending TOA HX-5 speakers. TOA HX-5 Compact Array Speakers - Variable Dispersion!

Frankly, I thought he was a bit condescending. I'm not a "sound guy" - but I have used sound equipment for years. He wasn't really listening to either myself or one of our directors.

While I am all for the home town guy getting business, it is never a final deciding factor.

Find an AVL company. They have the ability to give you exactly what you need not just what they want to sell.

We are in the initial phases of a new building project. We were not sure about going line array (L'Acoustics) or focused point source (Danley). Our AVL company did room layouts showing DB levels and all kinds of other charts and graphs.

You are looking at dropping 50K- 100k on the low low end. Why trust that to a guy that sells mics, guitar string, and trumpets?

 

[museav]

He wants line arrays because they "project the sound better for our space". He was recommending TOA HX-5 speakers. TOA HX-5 Compact Array Speakers - Variable Dispersion!

I had a suspicion that might be what they proposed. The HX-5 is a nice speaker, for what it is. It is not a true line array, I believe that TOA calls it a variable dispersion array and you can sort of think of it as a speaker that can be adjusted to provide a 15, 30, 45 or 60 degree nominal vertical coverage. It is much smaller than most people think, an entire 'array' is less than 2' tall, and the woofers are four 4.75" drivers per array (one per array element). As a result, with a single array the nominal pattern is not really applicable until as high as over 3kHz for the 15 degree mode while the low frequency response is 70-85Hz (-10dB) depending on the mode. Maximum continuous output is 119-122dB at 1m. So while compact size and variable vertical pattern of the HX-5 can be beneficial in some applications, it is definitely limited in terms of output and frequency response.

I am all for supporting local businesses and try to do so myself, but one reason that I do it is because they will typically make the effort to listen to my needs and do their best to serve me even if it means giving some of my business to someone else. To me the comment "He wasn't really listening to either myself or one of our directors" and that is almost sounds like they are trying to sell you way more than you were asking could be very telling about who they are really trying to serve or at least reflecting that they did a poor job of communicating with you.

 

[esmphoto]

Frankly, I thought he was a bit condescending. I'm not a "sound guy" - but I have used sound equipment for years. He wasn't really listening to either myself or one of our directors.

Find an AVL company. They have the ability to give you exactly what you need not just what they want to sell.
...
You are looking at dropping 50K- 100k on the low low end. Why trust that to a guy that sells mics, guitar string, and trumpets?

While I can't throw much in on the actual equipment, other than that i definitely would recommend installation of a line array because of the tune-ability of the whole system, I will say that getting the right vendor is important.
Find some one who's is qualified and if they act like they're doing you a favor then they aren't the right people for the job. I deal with vendors and contractors who like to talk down to me because I'm young and "inexperienced" (according to them) all the time, but what they're often to stupid to realize is however young or "inexperienced" am I'm the one in charge of the space.

If I detect even a hint of attitude from a vendor or contractor they're out and I make sure they don't ever get called back.

 

[waynehoskins]

I love the HX-5. It's an excellent tool, but like Brad said, it's not necessarily the right tool. Shooting from the hip, and without drawing anything up, I would guess it might be a decent fit to the room -- meaning, for me at least, it's worth modeling through Ease or some such to see if it will likely meet the expectations.

Which that has to be defined, the expectations. Things like coverage, response, maximum obtainable level, etc. You would of course want some sort of system processing like a Soundweb, Driverack, Nexia, or others, regardless of which speaker system is selected.

With that high a ceiling, HX-5 might not be my first choice. I might be tempted to go with conventional point-source arrays, probably LCR for theatre. HX-5 works well in many spaces with low ceilings due to its compact size, though those often need a distributed-system approach because of the low ceiling.

That's if you even need a new speaker system at all, which has to be determined. Define goals and expectations for whatever sound system is used in the space, and if the existing system meets those criteria, there's no real need for a new system. If not, then you have something to go to an independent consultant with, a "we want a system that will let us do X". The consultant (who, by nature of not being a dealer as well, has no profit motivation to spec this or that) can then put together a high-level system design that can be sent off for bid. Costs a little more up front, but very likely saves you money in the long run.

 

[Les]

I deal with vendors and contractors who like to talk down to me because I'm young and "inexperienced" (according to them) all the time, but what they're often to stupid to realize is however young or "inexperienced" am I'm the one in charge of the space.

If I detect even a hint of attitude from a vendor or contractor they're out and I make sure they don't ever get called back.

While I agree with you on a lot of your points, I feel like your last sentence is a little harsh. An important thing in this industry is to have a thick skin, and realize that people may not mean something the way you perceive it. You should choose the company qualified to do the job correctly. They may or may not send out the warmest consultant, but you shouldn't give the entire company a black eye because of it. Another harsh reality is that they may, in fact, know more than you. Don't burn bridges - you never know where you may find yourself looking for work next (after you graduate from the program you're in charge of, I'm assuming).

I'm sorry if I come off as sounding harsh. It's just that you have good advice, but it's tainted with a bit of King of the Booth syndrome.

 

[esmphoto]

While I agree with you on a lot of your points, I feel like your last sentence is a little harsh. An important thing in this industry is to have a thick skin, and realize that people may not mean something the way you perceive it. Another harsh reality is that they may, in fact, know more than you. Don't burn bridges - you never know where you may find yourself looking for work next (after you graduate from the program you're in charge of, I'm assuming).

I'm sorry if I come off as sounding harsh. It's just that you have good advice, but it's tainted with a bit of King of the Booth syndrome.

Agreed Agreed, and thank you for checking me on that. "king of the booth syndrome" is the best way to describe a serious affliction of mine.

I don't know everything, especially about sound and any vendor we bring in will certainty know more than me, that is after all, why we bring them in.

I just think its a little unprofessional for vendor to take on a similar "king of the booth" or snooty attitude, and my biggest issue isnt just vendors who talk to me like I'm stupid, its vendors who think that they are the only vendor who could do the job and no matter what they do or say they will continue to have the job, and that was what i had intended on cautioning the OP on.

 

[Les]

Agreed Agreed, and thank you for checking me on that. "king of the booth syndrome" is the best way to describe a serious affliction of mine.

I don't know everything, especially about sound and any vendor we bring in will certainty know more than me, that is after all, why we bring them in.

I just think its a little unprofessional for vendor to take on a similar "king of the booth" or snooty attitude, and my biggest issue isnt just vendors who talk to me like I'm stupid, its vendors who think that they are the only vendor who could do the job and no matter what they do or say they will continue to have the job, and that was what i had intended on cautioning the OP on.

You bring up more very good points. Of course as you say, there is a "within reason" area as far as attitudes are concerned. For some people, it's just the way they are with everyone, but other times it can be uncalled for. I'd encourage contacting the main office before making any huge decisions (after exhausting all efforts to get along with the sales rep). I'm not sure what situation you're in, but if it were me, I'd have a superior handle the issue. Even as a student employee, you probably shouldn't go around getting sales reps fired .

Thanks for not taking my post the wrong way. I appreciate that. I will say this --- I've had "the syndrome" before, so thanks for not feeling like I was judging you.

 

[museav]

While I can't throw much in on the actual equipment, other than that i definitely would recommend installation of a line array because of the tune-ability of the whole system, I will say that getting the right vendor is important.

I would have to disagree rather strongly with the line array recommendation. Getting the kind of adjustability that seems to be assumed would require a true line array, significant processing and amplification and the knowledge to properly design and adjust the system including taking advantage of aspects such as amplitude and frequency shading. In other words, more money and expertise than many people have available. And even then, the potential advantages may not always outweigh the potential disadvantages. Keep in mind the size and capacity noted for this venue as well as the cost represented by what is proposed (the TOA HX-5 sells for about $500 to $600), unless you are doing tours and dealing with tech riders then in this case a true line array solution with the flexibility assumed to be provided seems inappropriate for both the space and use.

In fact I always have fun watching people when you point out that line arrays work by controlling and trying to use the interference between multiple speakers that you normally try to avoid. People are often also surprised to find that the 'magic' often associated with line arrays, such as the halving of distance losses and the directionality, do not apply to all arrays, all frequencies or all listeners. Those advantages only apply within certain limits and that is often not addressed in all the associated marketing and hype.


On the dealer side, maybe they really are trying to sell you things you didn't ask for and/or don't need. Maybe they are trying to help and just doing a poor job of explaining themselves. And maybe there are other factors involved that we don't know about. For example, what is your role with the playhouse and are you the person that would be making any decisions? Could that or their relationships with others involved or some past history be a factor?

Or are they simply in over their heads? I would typically be wary of someone who does not have much experience with installed theatre systems, much less installed systems in general. I would also typically be wary of vendors with limited equipment options, they may be offering the best option they can offer but be very limited by the products available to them.


Back to the original question. Without looking at any details in terms of specific coverage, levels, etc. I would guess that for basic speech reinforcement the TOA HX-5 may be fine, although I would probably look at the option of a simple single center array over the proscenium rather than left and right arrays. For any reasonable effects or music playback adding a subwoofer to the HX-5 would be highly recommend. If you really want to support bands with the house system then you may want to consider a LCR speaker arrangement and likely some different speakers.

However, I think the bigger question is as Wayne noted, what are you really trying to do? What problems or issues are you trying to address? What capability and/or functionality are you wanting to revise or add? What performance are you wanting to improve? Are new speakers a practical and realistic consideration at the present, something to consider for the future or something that is simply being pushed on you?

To add to another thing Wayne said, a Consultant is not limited to creating complete designs and documentation, many are quite willing to help in whatever capacity they can. While a Consultant can provide a complete design they can also help in assessing what you have, what you may want to do and what type general solutions may be recommended. They can help create a document you can then give to multiple design-build contractors to get more 'apples-to-apples' quotes. They can help you assess design-build bids you receive. Not every project needs a Consultant of an type, but don't overlook potentially supplementing the expertise you already have with that others may offer because of an assumption that that would entail their providing complete design and construction administration services, that may be appropriate but if not there may be many other options.

 

[JLNorthGA]

Back to the original question. Without looking at any details in terms of specific coverage, levels, etc. I would guess that for basic speech reinforcement the TOA HX-5 may be fine, although I would probably look at the option of a simple single center array over the proscenium rather than left and right arrays. For any reasonable effects or music playback adding a subwoofer to the HX-5 would be highly recommend. If you really want to support bands with the house system then you may want to consider a LCR speaker arrangement and likely some different speakers.

However, I think the bigger question is as Wayne noted, what are you really trying to do? What problems or issues are you trying to address? What capability and/or functionality are you wanting to revise or add? What performance are you wanting to improve? Are new speakers a practical and realistic consideration at the present, something to consider for the future or something that is simply being pushed on you?

The rest of the story (so to speak). We are starting from square one. We need a new complete sound system. The existing one is going away.

We therefore need a sound system to play music before shows and to play sound effects during shows. We need microphones on stage to pick up sound for the hearing impaired system. It would be nice to have speakers in the lobby and in the dressing rooms.

The only thing we have currently is a Mackie 24.4 sound board. That is it.

We need something - and it has to be inexpensive. I just signed a contract for a complete lighting system - that took up most of the available operating cash. So I'm trying to spend cheaply but wisely.

 

[waynehoskins]

We need something - and it has to be inexpensive. I just signed a contract for a complete lighting system - that took up most of the available operating cash. So I'm trying to spend cheaply but wisely.

All the more reason to get a consult-design type on board. You need to develop a long-term master plan, and a way to achieve it in stages, to get from nothing to part-of-everything to everything in a way that maximizes operability in the interim while minimizing waste. If used equipment is an option, that's one way to cut costs. I've done that at my church, buying many things used, some things new, and upgrading over the course of five years now. A general master plan (revised several times along the way as new goals and options came along) allowed us to do that.

What you don't want is to buy something that meets the budget but not the requirements now, just so you have something, and then next year replace it because it doesn't do what you need it to do. You want to avoid "Best Buy Band-aids".

A general rule of thumb, at least a few years ago, was that a basic good sound system for modern church applications starts at about $20K. Those requirements are similar to those for a theatre, so that would be a good number to put in the back of your mind. There are ways to get there in steps, and if you play your cards right, you can likely recoup the better part of your investment in interim equipment.

A good first step might be to put in the center array of a potential future LCR system, with its amplifiers, and a system processor that could accommodate the complete system. You could probably address the ALS, with its microphones and probably an independent mixer, at the same time. You could use the Mackie 24-4 for the time being until it's practical or necessary to upgrade it (first option that comes to mind is LS9/32 at about $8K).

Whatever you do, develop a good idea for the eventual complete system, and from that you can work in steps to get there.

 

[museav]

The rest of the story (so to speak). We are starting from square one. We need a new complete sound system. The existing one is going away.

We therefore need a sound system to play music before shows and to play sound effects during shows. We need microphones on stage to pick up sound for the hearing impaired system. It would be nice to have speakers in the lobby and in the dressing rooms.

The only thing we have currently is a Mackie 24.4 sound board. That is it.

We need something - and it has to be inexpensive. I just signed a contract for a complete lighting system - that took up most of the available operating cash. So I'm trying to spend cheaply but wisely.

Since you're in an existing space then what you have for existing power, conduit, etc, and what is practical in terms of speaker location/mounting and so on is probably going to have a great influence on what is practical, much less within the budget. If you were using the previous system that may also impact your near term goals and expectations as you are probably used to working with, and within, the functionality and capability it provided. And if you are starting over from scratch then since you had not mentioned it, don't forget to account for some form of production communications system.

In terms of budget, cheaply and wisely are not mutually exclusive and it may be possible to have both. However, they are also two different things and don't necessarily go together. Not knowing that much about the situation I can only offer that based on past experience, purchasing systems without any overall planning and coordination does not usually work well. It usually makes more sense to first develop the overall 'bigger picture' assessment and master planning that Wayne suggested, including determining how the budget you have should be allocated to the various needs and also allow for some contingencies. Setting the budget for any one system based solely on whatever funding is remaining after you bought other systems is often problematic and if you haven't done any 'big picture' and can't get out of the existing commitments then you may face some challenges and decisions, especially if what is already committed to may be somewhat open ended and you have not accounted for any contingency costs. A common situation that can result is being limited by the funds that are available to what is essentially a 'throw away' temporary system that meets your immediate needs but is not able to support the longer term goals. Another common situation is having to delay work that would be less expensive and have less impact on scheduling if it could be addressed now.

With that said, what can we do to help? Without seeing or hearing the existing space, knowing anything about the previous sound system, knowing the budget or knowing your options on procuring/installing/tuning/supporting the audio system, the comments and recommendations that can be offered are limited. If practical realities require working with the one local music store then

 

[JLNorthGA]

Since you're in an existing space then what you have for existing power, conduit, etc, and what is practical in terms of speaker location/mounting and so on is probably going to have a great influence on what is practical, much less within the budget. If you were using the previous system that may also impact your near term goals and expectations as you are probably used to working with, and within, the functionality and capability it provided. And if you are starting over from scratch then since you had not mentioned it, don't forget to account for some form of production communications system.

In terms of budget, cheaply and wisely are not mutually exclusive and it may be possible to have both. However, they are also two different things and don't necessarily go together. Not knowing that much about the situation I can only offer that based on past experience, purchasing systems without any overall planning and coordination does not usually work well. It usually makes more sense to first develop the overall 'bigger picture' assessment and master planning that Wayne suggested, including determining how the budget you have should be allocated to the various needs and also allow for some contingencies. Setting the budget for any one system based solely on whatever funding is remaining after you bought other systems is often problematic and if you haven't done any 'big picture' and can't get out of the existing commitments then you may face some challenges and decisions, especially if what is already committed to may be somewhat open ended and you have not accounted for any contingency costs. A common situation that can result is being limited by the funds that are available to what is essentially a 'throw away' temporary system that meets your immediate needs but is not able to support the longer term goals. Another common situation is having to delay work that would be less expensive and have less impact on scheduling if it could be addressed now.

With that said, what can we do to help? Without seeing or hearing the existing space, knowing anything about the previous sound system, knowing the budget or knowing your options on procuring/installing/tuning/supporting the audio system, the comments and recommendations that can be offered are limited. If practical realities require working with the one local music store then

The space is shown below (at least an architectural rendering).


I suppose I'm guilty of not doing the "big picture" in terms of sound. Lighting has consumed a great deal of my energy.

We would like to have a sound system for sound effects and pre-show music. We need a feed for our hearing impaired system. In terms of power, we have a reasonable amount available (easily several 20 amp circuits). Usually the visiting acts bring their own sound system. Due to the small size of the house, we have never really had to amplify the orchestra or singers for musicals (just need to feed into a hearing impaired system).

If we can get the basics, eventually we would like to expand the system - so we can supplement the visiting acts.

There is NO conduit. The current sound system has wire sitting on top of the suspended ceiling. Essentially we are starting with a blank slate - but with a fully furnished building.

We are ~120 miles north of Atlanta. So we can draw on the resources there. In terms of budget - probably about $5K for now. More later - as fund raising progresses.

 

[museav]

The space is shown below (at least an architectural rendering).
View attachment 5946

That helps tremendously, especially as it allowed going to the related web site and finding the upcoming schedule, some pictures and some background on the current situation. A little more research shows that Clay County does have a Building Code and Inspector and that any audio systems installation apparently will have to be in accordance with those, which seem to include NEC (2008).

In terms of power, we have a reasonable amount available (easily several 20 amp circuits).

There is NO conduit. The current sound system has wire sitting on top of the suspended ceiling. Essentially we are starting with a blank slate - but with a fully furnished building.

It looks like not only are there applicable codes as noted above but also that anyone other than the Owner installing the systems may have to be a licensed Electrical Contractor or in the case of the audio system perhaps a licensed Electrical Contractor or Special Restricted Fire Alarm/Low Voltage Contractor. This means that cable laid on top of the ceiling, extension cords to get power where you need it and so on seem likely to be prohibited, at least not as part of any new permanent system installation. If getting microphone lines to the stage legally means having to add conduit, use plenum cable, add boxes at the stage, etc. then that aspect could turn out to be more expensive than you may envision. Similar with audio to the dressing rooms, the equipment involved is one factor but getting cabling to the Dressing Rooms if no proper paths exist may be more complex, and expensive, than expected. If you plan to have others install anything then the licensing aspect may be a factor while if you plan to do the installation yourself then that may affect what is practical.

We are ~120 miles north of Atlanta. So we can draw on the resources there. In terms of budget - probably about $5K for now. More later - as fund raising progresses.

I've done some work at Young Harris College and we used to camp up at the Upper Chattahoochee so I know the area just south of you. It's definitely feasible that some companies in the Atlanta area might be an option, however a total budget of $5,000 for a fully functional system won't sustain much overhead cost.


My main point is that along with the equipment you seem to have to account for proper, legal installation, which in an existing space can have its own share of associated, and often unexpected, costs. It makes no sense to plan to purchase the gear for flown speakers, mics at the stage, speakers in the Dressing Rooms and so on if you can't also cover the costs associated with installing those items. In my experience there are two ways to approach this type of situation.

One is to take you current budget at face value and do as much as you can in terms of the initial system. That gets you the most upfront but is often very inefficient and ineffective in terms of supporting any longer term goals. It can also make it harder to justify future expansion or upgrades. For example, if you run cable for any mics to the stage now then not only may it be more expensive to add additional lines in the future but people may also be more hesitant to spend money on more inputs and wonder why you can't work with what you already have.

The other approach is to develop a long term master plan and base any work performed on that. This typically means trading off immediate functionality for the potential benefits in the long term. Using the mic input example, you might trade off some of the actual microphones themselves, which can probably be readily added as funding becomes available, for already having the cabling in place to be able to directly support bands and similar uses in the future.

I generally recommend the second approach but that is a decision you must make based on your situation.


As far as specifics, I would tend to plan for a more capable speaker system but keep the initial system simple. A single, full range speaker over the center of the proscenium may provide adequate coverage and response for the immediate needs identified and you might be better of to spend the money on one higher quality speaker. Without trying to design a system, here's some other general suggestions:

• Think about communications systems. Even if it is a single channel, party line system this is one aspect that I have seen many theaters regret cutting out of their budgets.
• Consider at least one or two wireless microphones, they may cost a bit but can provide a great deal of flexibility especially if you are limited in wired inputs and in last minute "we need a mic now" situations.
• Don't get too caught up in the hearing impaired feed, while it would be great to be able to create a dedicated mix, in some cases a single microphone out in the audience space may work fine and create much more of an impression of being in the audience.
• Your web site seems to include pictures of several dance performances so you might want to think about whether music playback and stage monitoring for those events should be part of the house systems.
• I would consider some speaker processing, at least some equalization if not a speaker/system processor. This is one area where the long term/short term planning can be used wisely, for example a simple equalizer on the house sound signal could possibly be reused for a monitor or ancillary feed if a more advanced house speaker system and/or system processor were later added.
• Don't forget all the little costs like a rack for equipment, connecting cables and adapters, mic stands and mic cables, direct boxes and so on. These can add up and it's a pain to install everything and then realize you have no mic cables or budget for them.

 

[JLNorthGA]

That helps tremendously, especially as it allowed going to the related web site and finding the upcoming schedule, some pictures and some background on the current situation. A little more research shows that Clay County does have a Building Code and Inspector and that any audio systems installation apparently will have to be in accordance with those, which seem to include NEC (2008).

Thanks for all your advice. A lot to think about.