Building A Booth

[DuckJordan]

i know it sounds like we're jumping down your throat over this booth, but the fact of the matter is we are trying to help keep your costs low. a huge fine for not having it done right (which would probably happen next year), is going to cost a lot more than what we are saying. also its all about helping so sorry if I sound like I'm coming on a bit harsh but I have had to change things in our booth because of fire code and everything else and it ended up costing us a lot more than we wanted to pay.

 

[mjw56]

I thank everyone for their concerns about the soundboard in the booth and probably have plenty of testimony from the 1st 3 pages of this thread.

Did a very quick search a couldn't find how often draperies need to be retreated. When i did les mis we used erosion cloth everywhere. We soaked it in some fire retardant chemical concentrate. Is this adequate to retreat?

there was no mech.engr. involved because its an existing space...that wasnt a closet previously. i have a feeling that when the school was built there was insulation above the ceiling but was removed a looong(decades) time ago. probably when the crew broke out the backwall of the spot booth for some storage space.

i really am not in touch with all of the technical advancements of the type of equipment im trying to get together here. iget that a 24x cd rom is better than an 8x but why one sound board is better than another. something about op-amps ? among other things. i was hoping that this community could take a look at the list of stuff i want to put in a recommend specific brands or models that achieve those ends. i don't really care how expensive it is because i really just need a benchmark for what is high quality.


P.S. ( took a while to get this post out, didnt see duckjordan's last post while i was writing) thanks for the code concerns. im really gonna try to get a real window in there but like i said i can beg and plead all i want and i may not get through to him...then it will be on the school. myself and the scout are covered as the principal wrote a letter stating that the project requires no code review. so that's on them, even so i would not be happy if a problem did arise. also the small 18"x18" window is gonna get bricked up, or a piece of plexi glass but it is gonna get sealed in some way

 

[museav]

there was no mech.engr. involved because its an existing space...that wasnt a closet previously.

However the occupancy of the space apparently changed in both the function and the quantity of occupants and that is what makes the determination in what is required. The impact of this can go also beyond code requirements, for example because they may be used at any time including when the theater itself is not in use, it is pretty common to treat areas such as booths as independent zones for HVAC, access control and other building systems. Code may not require this but it may be desirable to maximize the functionality of the space.

i really am not in touch with all of the technical advancements of the type of equipment im trying to get together here. iget that a 24x cd rom is better than an 8x but why one sound board is better than another. something about op-amps ? among other things. i was hoping that this community could take a look at the list of stuff i want to put in a recommend specific brands or models that achieve those ends. i don't really care how expensive it is because i really just need a benchmark for what is high quality.

Maybe I missed something, but I did not see much tech equipment in your list that wasn't already identified or assumed to be existing (or needing to be compatible with existing). I saw things like filing cabinets and room lights, which seems unrelated to equipment recommendations. I saw the Express 125 light board and Mackie console, which seemed to already have specific equipment selected. And I saw items like the screen controls that seemed to relate to other, likely existing, equipment. Perhaps you can clarify which items for which you are looking for input.

"High quality" is dependent upon the references used and can be very subjective. And budget is a major factor in assessing the value of anything. Without some reference of what you would consider 'high quality' and financially viable, along with some knowledge of the functional requirements, there is minimal basis for recommendations other than people basing their comments on their perspectives and their situations.

 

[mjw56]

Specifically im looking at (trying to be all rack mount):
--2 Computers; we have one but there is not much room inside to expand to a couple hard drives or a high end sound card. and its very weak in the processor and ram.....its old

--Monitors and keyboards; this wont need much attention but if u have a monitor u hate cause the contrast blows or something similar throw that out there

--Projector screen controls; we have a 3 button control in the wing but can we have another one in the booth as well? this is the topic i know the least about.

--we have the headset system already but may need to replace it if the humming doesn't go away. i think the circuit its on, grounding(or the lack thereof), and its proximity to the dimmers, isnt helping any. some packs are very loud and others cant be turned up enough

--2 CD players; they can be 2 players in one unit. i saw the numark CDN22 MK5 and thought that was nice.

--Recording device; i saw one that will record directly to an ipod which is cool, but then i need an ipod and that will grow legs after a while. im looking for a fair amount of direction here too

--God Mic; im sure there is come kind of real (read not jury rigged) system to accomplish this end.

--Power conditioners; Any that stink? any u like in particular?

--Cable; when connecting all these components should i make my own cables (quad-shield coax and compression connectors ie. RCA/BNC/RG5somethin) or buy from a store pre-terminated. what are the functional differences between cat 5,5e and 6 which should i use?

 

[Footer]

Specifically im looking at (trying to be all rack mount):
--2 Computers; we have one but there is not much room inside to expand to a couple hard drives or a high end sound card. and its very weak in the processor and ram.....its old

--Monitors and keyboards; this wont need much attention but if u have a monitor u hate cause the contrast blows or something similar throw that out there

--Projector screen controls; we have a 3 button control in the wing but can we have another one in the booth as well? this is the topic i know the least about.

--we have the headset system already but may need to replace it if the humming doesn't go away. i think the circuit its on, grounding(or the lack thereof), and its proximity to the dimmers, isnt helping any. some packs are very loud and others cant be turned up enough

--2 CD players; they can be 2 players in one unit. i saw the numark CDN22 MK5 and thought that was nice.

--Recording device; i saw one that will record directly to an ipod which is cool, but then i need an ipod and that will grow legs after a while. im looking for a fair amount of direction here too

--God Mic; im sure there is come kind of real (read not jury rigged) system to accomplish this end.

--Power conditioners; Any that stink? any u like in particular?

--Cable; when connecting all these components should i make my own cables (quad-shield coax and compression connectors ie. RCA/BNC/RG5somethin) or buy from a store pre-terminated. what are the functional differences between cat 5,5e and 6 which should i use?

Computers are so commodity products these days, buy what you can afford. If you are going to be doing any type of audio or video editing get as much ram as possible at least an i5 processor. Get dedicated graphics and the biggest hard drive you can put in. Dell makes good computers. I would not build your own these days.

Projection screen controls are proprietary to your screen, contact that manufacture.

Odds are your headset system is fine but your cables have issues. Anytime there is a hum in a system 99% of the time it is a bad cable somewhere in the system. Try disconnecting your power supply from the system and connecting 2 belt packs to it directly and see if the hum is there.

CD players are also commodity products anymore. Do a search, we have beat that one to death.

Best way to record is to go straight to a hard drive. You can either do this with a USB/Firewire interface and a computer or a dedicated hardware recorder. Most people anymore record straight to a computer with a hardware recorder for backup. Depending on what you want to do with these recordings changes what you would use to do the recording. There are also units that will go straight to CD.

What you want this "god mic" to do?

Anything Furman for power conditioners is usually a good bet.

I would not build your own cables if you can avoid it unless you really know what you are doing. Cat5e is fine if you are not going to be going above 100mbps. If you are wanting gigabit speeds, go with Cat6.

 

[zuixro]

Dell makes good computers. I would not build your own these days.

Personally, I hate Dell. I wouldn't do anything but build my own (especially if you want to go rack mount). It might be more expensive, but you will be able to pick out the specific parts you want for the specific purpose. I haven't looked at Dell's website lately, but I doubt they let you pick out the specific speed ram you want.

 

[DuckJordan]

Personally, I hate Dell. I wouldn't do anything but build my own (especially if you want to go rack mount). It might be more expensive, but you will be able to pick out the specific parts you want for the specific purpose. I haven't looked at Dell's website lately, but I doubt they let you pick out the specific speed ram you want.

You're both right, it depends on how well you are educated in computers. If you know what you want to do with it and know how to get to that end, by all means it is generally cheaper to build it yourself.

I live in South Dakota. I can get all the parts for a computer (same ones dell use, except the case) for cheaper, put it together and save about 50% of the cost that dell charges. when you buy from dell you pay for the service of not having to know how to put a computer together.

so long story short if you know about computers and have built computers in the past then by all means build your own, But if you haven't then I would go the route of dell or any other computer manufacturer.

 

[Footer]

Personally, I hate Dell. I wouldn't do anything but build my own (especially if you want to go rack mount). It might be more expensive, but you will be able to pick out the specific parts you want for the specific purpose. I haven't looked at Dell's website lately, but I doubt they let you pick out the specific speed ram you want.

Ya, you can geek it out all you want, but in reality it does not really matter that much. You can select specific memory speeds if you so desire, but they will usually give you the fastest possible for the mobo.

I am the first person that will say you should build your own, but if the OP does not know what cat5e vs cat6 is, I don't think he needs to worry about matching processors, ram, etc. Rack mount is nice, but I think it is not necessary in this situation. It would double the price for no benefit because the computers are never going to move.

With the build your own you are the support. Thats great if you know what you are doing, not great if you don't. Just today we had a tech out to repair MrsFooter's laptop because of a video error. I called them yesterday at 4pm, they had a tech at my door the next day at 1pm. He swapped out the parts and it did not cost me a thing nor did I have to take her computer anywhere. All this on a laptop that we bought for $450 dollars. That type of service is unheard of with most computer companies, including Apple.

If you want to build your own, go for it. Your really not saving any money by building your own anymore like you used to. You usually get a better machine in the end, but all in all for a production/show critical machine, I always buy.

 

[mjw56]

thanks

i want the "god" mic to be able to address the house and stage during tech week ("HOLD").but also be able to talk to the greenroom and dressing rooms without talking to the house for in-show cues to the cast, i know this may seem redundant with the camera but students are off in their own world when their not on stage. i was thinking some kind of mic for a school PA where the principal hold the button down to speak, but with 2 buttons ( one for each area)

the computers don't have to rackmount. i think 2 large towers would still sit side by side between a pair of rack rails. the school has a mostly full time IT guy. i have resurrected a few computers and done some ram upgrades myself but have never delved into processors or motherboards.

 

[Footer]

thanks

i want the "god" mic to be able to address the house and stage during tech week ("HOLD").but also be able to talk to the greenroom and dressing rooms without talking to the house for in-show cues to the cast, i know this may seem redundant with the camera but students are off in their own world when their not on stage. i was thinking some kind of mic for a school PA where the principal hold the button down to speak, but with 2 buttons ( one for each area)

Thats a general paging system. Usually a paging system is installed that feeds backstage/dressing rooms/green room/box office so the SM can make calls. The talkback mic used during tech is usually a separate system using some type of switched mic. Its plugged into the sound system and left on. It is possible to route it all through your sound system, it just depends how sound gets backstage. Its best though to have a monitor/paging system to be completely separate from the sound system. That way, the operator does not have to think about it and it always works.

 

[mjw56]

Making sound sound good is not my forte but, assuming i have 3 rooms (all within 75' of each other and about 160' from the booth) each with one speaker (maybe 2 in the green room since its so large), say this speaker( Opentip.com: TIC Corporation Indoor/Outdoor Speakers, Home Theater Speaker, Electronics & Computers ), and a pair mounted directly outside the booth tucked under the overhang from the spot booth, ill have to include an amp and a small mixer. since this set up is in no way attached to the rest of the audio system how would that work. 2 outs from the board? 2 amps?

 

[museav]

--Projector screen controls; we have a 3 button control in the wing but can we have another one in the booth as well? this is the topic i know the least about.

If the existing screen control is a 3 button low voltage control and not actually switching the AC power then you would typically be able to add a second switch or tie it into a control system. BVut without knowing what you actually have I can't say for sure.

--we have the headset system already but may need to replace it if the humming doesn't go away. i think the circuit its on, grounding(or the lack thereof), and its proximity to the dimmers, isnt helping any. some packs are very loud and others cant be turned up enough

Can't offer much input without knowing what you have, how it is wired, etc.

--God Mic; im sure there is come kind of real (read not jury rigged) system to accomplish this end.

Based on your subsequent description it sounds like you are looking for two different things; a talkback mic and a back-of-house paging or comms system. The back-of-house system doesn't necessarily have to tie into the house system and can be separate from it although you may want to provide a program audio feed.

--Power conditioners; Any that stink? any u like in particular?

What do you mean by "power conditioner"? A lot of the cheaper 'power conditioners' are basically plug strips with some MOV based surge suppression, they are not conditioning anything and the surge suppression capability decreases almost every time it suppresses a surge. For surge suppression I prefer SurgeX. Computers, DSP, digital consoles, etc. may be best served by also being on a line interactive UPS.

--Cable; when connecting all these components should i make my own cables (quad-shield coax and compression connectors ie. RCA/BNC/RG5somethin) or buy from a store pre-terminated. what are the functional differences between cat 5,5e and 6 which should i use?

Unless you are making a large number of cables or have the tools and want the practice, making your own cables is probably inefficient.


One suggestion is that before you start selecting specific equipment try documenting what your goals are and then drawing up a conceptual design for how everything interconnects. Thus will not only help clarify what you need everything to do but may point out some ancillary gear, special cables, etc. that are required.

 

[mjw56]

The screen control is definitely low voltage, there's a cat 5 wire running to it from a box near the ceiling with what looks like a little radio antenna hanging out and some larger definitely line voltage wiring, i just never really took a look at it because its very much out of the way.

The comms are a very old clear-com system that probably just really needs to be rewired. honestly i couldne begin to tell anyone how its wired without the both of us standing in the theater. its a real mess, yet somehow makes sense its complicated.

i would like the 2 sides of the paging system to be on the same setup so i only need one mic. and before anyone asks the 2 speakers mentioned in my previous post which hang under the spot booth are there because having tried a talk back in the past, the students on the stage cant hear the main speakers.

in the power conditioner im looking for something that would offer surge protection and maybe clean up the sine wave some. i fear that the dimmers which dont have their own step down transformer (to isolate harmonics in the delta side) may be introducing interference into the electric for the building its only a 48 ch rack of 2.4kVA dimmers. im probably too worried about it but i would swear the comms got worse after the rack went in. upgrading to a ups would definitely be a good thing though.

i do already have a compression connector tool for RCA/BNC/RG59 and stripper and the tool for 6 and 8 pin cat 5 so i should be set, i will probably just make my own runs to the studio as they will be around 200' each and buy the short ones pre-made

im trying to lay this out but its such a small space its difficult to do in 2D and i just dont have the time for 3d models right now. im at the point where im just gonna buy everything a go to town to see what works. thatertech81 is in on this project with me and finishes his show in a couple weeks. then we will be able to really tackle this. he has about a decade more experience than i, hes also the LD at Camden catholic.

 

[museav]

The screen control is definitely low voltage, there's a cat 5 wire running to it from a box near the ceiling with what looks like a little radio antenna hanging out and some larger definitely line voltage wiring, i just never really took a look at it because its very much out of the way.

Screens controls can be direct switching the AC power, low voltage, serial, network, RF wireless or IR wireless. You can also have combinations of these. For example, you could have a screen that has serial control, network control and low voltage control all through one controller. Or you could have low voltage and RF from the same controller. So it really requires identifying just what you have.

in the power conditioner im looking for something that would offer surge protection and maybe clean up the sine wave some. i fear that the dimmers which dont have their own step down transformer (to isolate harmonics in the delta side) may be introducing interference into the electric for the building its only a 48 ch rack of 2.4kVA dimmers. im probably too worried about it but i would swear the comms got worse after the rack went in. upgrading to a ups would definitely be a good thing though.

If transformer isolation of the power or similar is not feasible then a double conversion, online UPS may be the best bet. These always run off the battery and the line power is only used to charge the battery thus isolating you from the incoming power.

i do already have a compression connector tool for RCA/BNC/RG59 and stripper and the tool for 6 and 8 pin cat 5 so i should be set, i will probably just make my own runs to the studio as they will be around 200' each and buy the short ones pre-made

There will likely be many terminations other than RCA, BNC and 8P8C (RJ45) involved.

im trying to lay this out but its such a small space its difficult to do in 2D and i just dont have the time for 3d models right now.

Do you know what single line diagrams are? They are where you lay out a simplified equipment interconnectivity, device A has this output going to that input on Device B, etc. Something like that will help you figure out what physical interconnections are required and whether what you have will work. The latter is especially nice to know in advance.

im at the point where im just gonna buy everything a go to town to see what works.

Well, that is probably not the best way to learn, but it is one way. I just hope you use a different approach with your Engineering career!

 

[mjw56]

yeah i know. my engineering career is why i don't have time. i have drawn a single line diagram before but like to know what connectors i need and how many of what are on each element, so i can connect everything every which way and know ahead of time how its gonna work, not technically a single line i guess, but i would need to know the equipment to know the connections.

 

[Footer]

yeah i know. my engineering career is why i don't have time. i have drawn a single line diagram before but like to know what connectors i need and how many of what are on each element, so i can connect everything every which way and know ahead of time how its gonna work, not technically a single line i guess, but i would need to know the equipment to know the connections.

Almost every audio company has AutoCAD blocks that you can download and play with connections from one piece of gear to another. That might give you some help.

 

[EricE]

Yup, I realize this is an old thread, but I'm curious as to how things eventually turned out! Also, for UPS's

If transformer isolation of the power or similar is not feasible then a double conversion, online UPS may be the best bet. These always run off the battery and the line power is only used to charge the battery thus isolating you from the incoming power.

Exactly! And they won't be under $500 either! If you have power of questionable quality, they can be worth every penny. That $99 UPS from Staples is a stand-by - it will only kick in when the power really degrades or cuts out. And the switchover time can be too long for some equipment that is sensitive to having clean, reliable power.

Line-Interactive is code for a line conditioner built into a UPS - it's better than a line interactive UPS alone, but if you need to rely on your power output being consistent and clean, the type of UPS museav is talking about is well worth the investment. My favorite manufacturer of these kinds of UPS's used to be BEST power systems - I think APC bought them :neutral:

I've tried a few CyberPower UPS's here recently, and I really like them. I haven't had one truly put to the test yet, but they run cooler and longer than the APC units they replaced and were almost half the cost.

 

[mjw56]

Its been a while since ive been in the space, like 6 months, but last time i left it this is what t looked like.

As you can see we have replaced the folding window with a 3 pane slider, continued the desk around 1 wall, added a small rack and computer, a television with cable, and are actually using the ticket window again.

This project took a ridiculous amount of work to complete and we managed to do it with the scrap we had lying around the theater and our houses.

Unfortunately after 5 years ill finally be moving to an apartment on campus and very likely wont be involved in the theater program at this high school for quite some time.

The school was supposed to get another Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2. I was supposed to make a desk for the pair of them right outside and under the slider window but im sure that wont happen now either.