C-clamp direction

[icewolf08]

I would never be affixing a c-clamp from the other side of the pipe because it would never make sense to hang the lights from the side of the pipe that you can't see the circuit numbers from. That is partially because I use the circuit plot to judge distances, so instead of saying I need a fixture 15' off of center towards stage right on the third electric, I'd just say this fixture needs to be between circ. 135 and 136. So on my plots I have both the circuit labels for each light to designate which circuits they plug into, regardless of the physical location of the light, as well as the circuit plot so that roughing the locations of fixtures is easy.

That is all well and good if:

A) You have dedicated raceways on all your battens.
B) Your circuits are spaced at uniform intervals.
C) You don't have to twofer unit #1 with #23
D) You actually know what the circuit spacing is.
E) You don't care about having your units not quite where they dimension to on the plot

 

[Soxred93]

Whichever way the rest of the lights on the bar are. I would rather have consistency over comfort. Isn't the whole point of moving lights around to get into uncomfortable positions?

 

[SteveB]

Stephanie wrote:

"As the Head Electrician of my space, I focus and re-focus my plot nearly everyday, which means I spend a lot of time up in the bucket, and I have never been hindered by the direction in which the fixture is hung, (unless it's hung up-side-down, that is.)"

Sure you've been hindered, you just don't let it bother you and are probably used to it. Answer this - Which is easier, reaching around the fixture to reach the clamp bolt, sometimes fumbling with the c-wrench or speed wrench to get the head on the bolt, loosening it, sliding the fixture to a new position, then reaching around the fixture again, potentially with raceway hanging hardware, or a pigtail, or cable bundle in the way, to tighten the bolt. OR, not having to reach around the fixture to accomplish same. Sometimes in the dark and you can't get the works turned on momentarily to see clearly what you are doing. Does it slow you down, maybe not, but often times it does. I too focus all the time, I'm almost always the guy in the bucket and have been doing this for 28 years at my space. Does it slow me down, yeah, it sometimes does, but I never said it "hinders" me. It's just a pain is all.

"I think about it this way. If you're making your electricians go back and fix fixtures because you don't like the direction the c-clamp is facing or making them stop and think about the direction in which to hang it then you're wasting hang time. And does that time spent really save you any time in the bucket? If it does, then you need to find someone new to focus."

Having the deck electricians pay attention to details when they hang, saves time at focus. C-clamps in a direction useful to the person focusing. Instrument handles and bolts not over-tightened. Shutters and iris's opened. Functional barndoors, Units pointing in approx. the direction of focus. Template seated correctly. Instrument lead not tied to the pipe and having enough slack to allow focus. ALL of these things are the details that save time. If you have a crew of 8 electricians on the hang and teach them and enforce the need to pay attention to these kinds of details, then IT SAVES TIME DURING FOCUS. As opposed to having 4-6 of those folks sitting around watching, while the electrician wastes time doing the things that should have been dealt with on the deck.

I'd love to find somebody new to focus, BTW, but in truth, NOBODY's as fast as I am, the old fart, 20 or more years older then the rest of the crew. Mostly as I pay attention to the preparation of the units so I'm not struggling with stupid stuff when I'm in the bucket. Granted that it take me longer to get IN the bucket, but lets not discuss that.

 

[mstutzman]

I consistently hang the opening on all my instruments to the back of the instrument. In most cases this becomes consistent in the overall hang. When focusing a light you are always going to be behind it, so thus it always reachable. Also in spaces where you are cabling directly to the pipe, the open end gives you a place to run, and tie your cable up without having them hump over the closed end.

More importantly, what drives me nuts is when lights are over hung or yoked up and the opening to the clamp is up. This puts all of the weight on the friction to the pipe instead of the bolt. If uses correctly the c-clamp should hug the pipe but the bolt should take the weight. not unlike using a pipe wrench the right way as opposed to the wrong way.

 

[MNicolai]

That is all well and good if:

A) You have dedicated raceways on all your battens.
B) Your circuits are spaced at uniform intervals.
C) You don't have to twofer unit #1 with #23
D) You actually know what the circuit spacing is.
E) You don't care about having your units not quite where they dimension to on the plot

In my application, I never really have problems with any of those points

A) We have connector strips on each of our electrics, and on the rare occasion we need to hang lights on other battens, we toss a drop box on that batten and continue to hang our fixtures consistent to the way they've been hung on the electrics.

B) They circuit density is higher on the pipe ends than in the centers of the pipes, but that's not a problem.

C) Still not a problem.

D) We have the ETC as-builts indicating exact dimensions of the connector strips and the circuit plot shows the circuits spaced exactly as they are on the strips. Therefore, not a problem.

E) Our widest gap between circuits is 18". I've never had a problem with someone not being able to tell to within a couple inches where the fixture is supposed to be.

Here's a screenshot of my AutoCAD drawing. It doesn't have any fixtures on it, but it shows where our circuit density is the widest on stage. It's far less problematic because I don't have to worry about crew members wasting time trying to get the fixtures exactly at the distance off of center that they need to be at. Also, when they see a distance marker, that's something they can accidentally place on the wrong electric, whereas the circuit numbers are all unique to each electric, so there's no way they can even begin to hang a light in the wrong location by having accidentally looked on the wrong electric.

I'm not saying this is a full-proof setup for every venue, but it works just fine for me at ours. I don't want to be the type of person who walks around and yells at people because they hung the light 2" from the place it was supposed to be hung. Some LD's are paranoid enough for that to be a big deal, but we have yet to encounter a show in here were that sort of precision is necessary. Occasionally, it will be, but for 99% of the comparing the fixture location on the plot to where it falls between circuit numbers is just fine.

When hanging lights on other battens, which doesn't happen often, we can handle those situations as is necessary. It's rare enough that in the 14 months since the building has been open, we've only once had to hang lights on a batten without a connector strip.

 

[cdub260]

It depends on which lighting position I'm using. As much as possible, I tray to be consistent as it makes my job easier in the long run. That said, with some of my lighting positions, the position itself and access issues dictate which direction the c-clamp faces. For instance, I have a lighting position in a sycamore tree which can only be accessed from a man lift positioned in front of the pipe, so the opening on the c-clamp faces the stage. My first electric is too close to the proscenium to get a lift down stage of it and cannot fly all the way in to a good deck working height, so all c-clamp openings face upstage. My second electric has three, 8ft. R-40 strips partially yoked out as more or less permanent fixtures on the upstage side of the electric. These strips make it very inconvenient to work with c-clamps that face upstage, so I position the openings downstage. In fact, thinking about it, at my venue I have very few lighting positions where the orientation of the c-clamp is not dictated by some feature or access issue.

Now with all that said, I do about 98% of the hanging and focusing at my venue myself. I do not have a crew working under me, so if I don't keep it consistent, the only person I'm inconveniencing is me. Also, I have the better part of 6 months to get my lights hung and focused so I don't have the same deadline issues that most of you have. Still, I try to keep degree of efficiency to my work because I'm fundamentally lazy and don't want to work any harder than I have to. I've found that taking a few minutes to think about what I'm doing before I do it generally saves me a lot more time actually doing the job.

 

[philhaney]

I'm in the same boat as cdub260 on this one (only in my case, it's an extension ladder). I do all the hanging and focusing at my venue (church), so if anything's hung in an inconvenient manner it's my fault and I have to deal with it.

I'm also basically lazy, and don't want to work any harder than I have to either. That being said, I'm also a stickler for details. So when I'm working anywhere else, for anyone else, I do my best to follow their conventions and take into account where the person in the bucket focusing in the dark will be.

 

[MNBallet]

BZZZZZ. Wrong Answer !.

And the same to everyone who answered in a similar reply, including No Personal Preference.

This is a "Craft" we practice. The meaning of that is that you "do it right". This means that your personal preference takes a back seat to "the right way to do it".

well thank you for telling me I'm doing it wrong. In all the points you mention about which direction the pipe bolt should face there is one more thing to factor in. While thinking about how it is going to be focused, the pan bolt is to the side, so it is reachable if it is facing Sr or SL. If you don't know what way to move the pan bolt during focus regardless of which way it's facing, I don't want you in the air. In the case of having to move a fixture while in the air, in my home theater, the fixture would then need to be re-circuited. I have not come across a situation where shifting a light within the confines of the pigtail length would solve the reason for moving it. So in that case the pipe clamp bolt would want to be facing the direction one would need to also circuit it. Some theaters have pigtails, but I have toured several theaters where it is a raceway with the plugs flush mounted.

Plus, throw in a "union" into this thread and all kinds of other factors come into play. In my case when I am doing a orchestra show my main concern is speed in the hang, not in the focus. Those lights need to be up so that chairs and risers can to be set up. I have 3 hours to go from empty stage to show ready. In the case of the first electric next to the walls most people will want to hang from the upstage side, and tighting around the fixture will take more time than having it face you.
Plus, once the stage is totally filled, I don't have the option to move a light around. It's get it up fast, and get it done right the first time.
I come from a touring company and I won't care how you hang it, just as long as it's up and properly circuited when I get there.

You can set rules for your own house, but to flat out say one way is right or wrong to everyone in the world in every situation on something as simple as to which way a c-clamp should face gets an eye roll from me.

Kenneth Pogin
Production / Tour Manager
Minnesota Ballet

Technical Director
Duluth Festival Opera

Lighting Director, pops series
Duluth Superior Symphony Orchestra

 

[MrsFooter]

Well said, MN.

I think Footer hit it pretty well on the head: a valid concern on a position-by-position basis, but excessive fixture-by-fixture. Part of being good at your job is being able to take the little curve balls that pop up and staying flexible.

In more exciting news, there's some wallpaper in my bathroom that should be ready to start peeling. I think I'll go grab my seat.

 

[SteveB]

Hey Ken

"well thank you for telling me I'm doing it wrong. "

Nope, not taking the bait. My reply was obviously (or should have been) to those who decide what's "easiest for them" when they hang, or those who use personal preference when they hang, as opposed to how the head elec wants it or indicates it on a hang sheet/card. It's been my work method to have my electricians try to think ahead and not create issues for the person focusing. You obviously have a method that has thought and logic to it so should not have been offended.

"In all the points you mention about which direction the pipe bolt should face there is one more thing to factor in. While thinking about how it is going to be focused, the pan bolt is to the side, so it is reachable if it is facing Sr or SL. If you don't know what way to move the pan bolt during focus regardless of which way it's facing, I don't want you in the air. "

The debate as to using the f_ _ k-me-nut is endless and not actually what the OP was asking. I personally dislike using it as years of use of Altman clamps, with a steel nut scoring an aluminum stem, frequently renders the pan bolt useless in attempting to get the pan of the fixture precise and to stay in place when you attempt to tighten the pan bolt. Thus I have the electricians pre-tighten the pan bolt and will use the yoke bolt for focus. Endless discussion has resulted on this forum as to the advisability of this method, but I've found it to be the quickest and most precise and haven't yet see a unit fall 'cause an electrician loosened the yoke bolt too far. But ea. theater has it's own work methods and to each his own.

"In the case of having to move a fixture while in the air, in my home theater, the fixture would then need to be re-circuited. I have not come across a situation where shifting a
light within the confines of the pigtail length would solve the reason for moving it. "

All the time with ellipsoidals sitting adjacent to an S4 Par, where the length of the ellipsoidal interferes with the beam of the S4 Par, in a cross stage shot.. Thus we often have to scoot the Par or ellipsoidal over a bit to get the focus the LD requires. As ours is a rep hang, this probably happens more then would be typical of a new hang, but even then, you need to allow adjustment room for fixtures. One of the reasons I dislike flush mount raceway receptacles in general and always spec. pigtails.

"So in that case the pipe clamp bolt would want to be facing the direction one would need to also circuit it. Some theaters have pigtails, but I have toured several theaters where it is a raceway with the plugs flush mounted.'

Yup, this is indeed a valid reason to hang a particular way, but perhaps the electricians need to know this as they are hanging, as opposed to "personal preference" ?. And hopefully will remember the house method every time ?.

"Plus, throw in a "union" into this thread and all kinds of other factors come into play. In my case when I am doing a orchestra show my main concern is speed in the hang, not in the focus. Those lights need to be up so that chairs and risers can to be set up. I have 3 hours to go from empty stage to show ready. In the case of the first electric next to the walls most people will want to hang from the upstage side, and tighting around the fixture will take more time than having it face you. Plus, once the stage is totally filled, I don't have the option to move a light around. It's get it up fast, and get it done right the first time.

I come from a touring company and I won't care how you hang it, just as long as it's up and properly circuited when I get there."

Tell me that you haven't been frustrated as an LD on tour and in a house, when the focus grinds to a halt to have something fixed that the deck electricians should have prep'd. Seems to me that in those situations you'd be happy to have had the house take extra time to properly prepare the equipment. It's SO much more cost effective to have 8 or more electricians getting the gear prepared correctly while it's on the deck then to have to stop a focus to fix stuff. In reality, and when YOU are on tour, you're not the guy paying for the advance hang, the space is. When your focus stops to fix something, that's YOUR time in the space and any minute wasted costs you and your company. Thus I would think that how the house gets the gear prepared is crucial to your time in the space and something you need to be thankful of when they get it right.

"You can set rules for your own house, but to flat out say one way is right or wrong to everyone in the world in every situation on something as simple as to which way a c-clamp should face gets an eye roll from me"

Remember though that this is as much a learning forum for a lot of folks and that letting the young 'uns know that paying attention to the simple things yields time and money in the long run and is indicitive of a well learned craft.

 

[mamills]

My personal preference is open toward where you are working, so that you do not have to tighten the clamp from "behind".