Crimp connector / Crimper

ship

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Well put, a few details. Never put any threadlocker or other than some unknown sort of conductive thread locker onto a screw thread that conducts. Not persay a really bad thing given terminal to plate touching but really really bad practive. Just don't do it in general as a never do.

Not such a fan of the McMaster Carr crimp tool offered. Sure it works and is fine for the most part but I don't like the concave tip which might cut more than "displace the material." Concept - this no matter if insulated is that you displace rather than crush your crimp. In other words, as opposed to smashing it down where some strands of wire may not recieve as much tension on the termial as others in a smashing sense - this could be bad with conductor settling and expansion/contraction, the insulation displacement type tooth crimp tool pushes material into the area of the crimp terminal. Less room about the terminal under tension means every strand of wire recieves the same amount of tension on it. Can still use an insulation displacement tool on insulated terminals, you just get a bit smashed or displaced the insulation.

Overall key and concept in doing a crimp terminal of any type is that you can tug on the wire now crimped and it don't pull free. Heck, when I was in school, the concept was you drywall screwed the cable to a board on the wall and had at best be able to climb that cable without screws or terminals failing. None the less, that's the tension. There is also ratcheting crimp tools that don't reliece the terminal until properly crimped. Good thing especially for the harder to crimp high temperature terminals, though I'm not as much a fan of them given the less tooth more widened displacement tooth.

As a rule also, find the seam of the crimp terminal. "Seam to saddle". Put that seam of the crimp terminal into the rounded concave part of the crimp tool so it's tooth crimps into the solid part of the crimp. Wouldn't believe how many even industry pro terminals are crimped wrong in strands of wire falling out of the terminal and even terminal working it's way free of the wire it's crimping to by way of backwards crimp. Simple rule, Seam in saddle.

On Flag terminal, Got no use for the front cutting jaws of a crimp tool such as the Stakon, Klien #1005 or #1006, I normally grind it off and that becomes your flag terminal crimp tool once away. This granted in doing so you loose your stops for cimping and instead have to rely on tension and experience in what is proper tension. Don't think there ever was a crimp tool invented for flag terminals. Love my Vatco #1900 tool, still use it as opposed to the above Klien tools at times, but it's a bit under strength at times for high temp. terminals. Got mine at Ace Hardware though in general the Vatco line isn't sold these days. A shame as I also prefer my 5/16" hex Key T-Handle for case or platform rotolocks.

Still the Vatco tool is all set for all intensive purposes for doing flag terminals. This granted it's going to be using the smallest of it's three sizes for crimping but again it's a tension thing more than a jaw size for a flag terminal. I recommend on it however to grind away the wire stipping cutters under the pivet point however. First, they don't give a proper strip of the cable typical to all multi-crimp/strippers and second they are dangerous. More than once I have used the tool to cut a screw in it's screw cutting jaws and choked up a bit only to catch part of the palm of my hand within these sharpened jaws. Not a good wire stripper, gone for safety just as with the Stakon or Klien proper crimp tools above in cutting away the useless cutting tip.

On the above Klien or Stakon tools, you have for at least Klien the #1005 single jaw verses #1006 double jaw crimp tools on the market. In matching up crimps to the saddle of it, it would seem the first single jaw - with insulated crimp oval, as it's second crimp part, works best on 14-16ga terminals. The double jaw works best on 18-22ga and 10-12ga terminals but not as well on the other. Were I to buy only one tool, I would buy the single jaw crimp tool in balancing that. Overall it I think has the best balance, though I do own many of both at shop and home and don't have to choose. Reason for this choice, In doing a flag terminal in having cut away the front cutting tip, the double jaw #1006 won't properly crimp a 12ga flag terminal given it's front crimp jaw is for 18-22ga. If you don't have flag terminals in your system, perhaps the #1006 would be better and you don't have to grind away the cutting edge.

On the Klien #1005, it's insulated crimp jaw is still useful if say doing 1/16" wire rope and setting up your crimp for a proper wire rope crimp tool. Or rounding out small round stuff, other than that, wouldn't use it.

On the other hand, what I often find myself using is an Ideal Linsesmens pliers crimp tool for 12-10ga and larger cap splices and in general for 12ga or larger crimps. I like it and it's the only style on the market. Wouldn't use it for normal uses of a Linsesmen's pliers in it's cutting part is lacking leverage in being on the wrong side of the hinge but it's a great crimp tool overall for a normal crimp tool. Saddle on it is just a bit larger and with leverage, it's jaw still displaces properly yet adds more surface area to what is displaced.

Side note, pull off the insulation from a vinyl store bought ring terminal and you now have a un-insulated ring terminal. On the other hand for a Union style stage pin plug in using the flag terminals, store bought and even McMaster or other sources in that center ground ring terminal for some reason is longer in length than a proper ring terminal for th plug. Short of Union Connector, you tend to run into problems of outer jacket strip length in even if you put the ground right next to the outer jacket, it's still too long. Caution on that.

This in Union Connector and or McMaster and other sources for a 100pkg of proper terminals often being cheaper in the long run than a ten pack or what ever for a home center package of them. Definately want to at least pull off the insulation off a ring terminal ground if doing a proper Union stage pin plug.

By the way... Stage pin is the proper term, I was incorrect in it being "stage pin" as opposed to "stage plug." in being different. On the other hand I do have a collection of all sizes from 10A thru 100A Stage pin and stage Plug in collection - fascinating if not cute in the case of the 10A version.

Call it anything except a "stage plug." See this thread... (well I can't find it, but it was the one where JD argued with me about calling a 2P&G a "stage plug." We really need a better search engine, perhaps in v3.0?)

Need 3x "Uninsulated Crimp-On Ring Terminals" for the modern 2P&G. Unless you have the older pin connectors that need two right angle ring terminals for the hot and neutral and a straight terminal for the ground. A brand name that has become like Leko and Kleenex is "Sta-Kon,"

Just to make it more difficult for you McMaster-Carr online catalog, page 719, Part#7113K823, The screw is actually an 8-32, so a 6-8 will work, but I wouldn't go larger than that. If you have older connectors, as I said above, you'll need the "Ring Flag Terminals," page, 721, Part#3125K68. Note these are only for 12g. cable, for instruments that have smaller wire you'll need different terminals. HomeDepot or Lowe's terminals will be fine, provided you can find an exact match, and I'm pretty sure they won't carry the ring flag terminals. Easier to just order from McMaster or equivalent.

The terminal should come with instructions, but if not, yes. See below.

Those are known as "shoe terminals," and are designed so that you just stick the stripped wire under the metal plate and tighten the screw. In my opinion, throw those little metal plates away and buy crimp terminals. If you must (or want to) use them, be sure to use the proper conductive LocTite (thread locker) on the screw before tightening. I think they come with split lock washers, but unassembled, so who knows if the lock washers were used by the original installer. In any case, I don't like them, except maybe for wiring a practical that you know you're going to be taking apart soon. Easier to field repair, but breaks more often. Use the right thing the first time and one need not worry about field repair.

Much issue of debate here. I prefer my Vaco crimper/stripper that has a tooth so that it significantly dents the ferrule. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find this crimper anywhere, and don't remember where I got the one I have. Edit--Vaco is a subset of Klein? or so it appears, never knew that. Since you (I) already have the McMaster catalog open, page 735, part# 7179K41 for $38.74 US, or, because you're partial to Klein, whose website seems to be down at the moment, this. As an aside, you DO have an MMC hard copy catalog, free for the asking, to use as a reference tool, don't you? In my opinion, don't use the crimpers that are flat and just smash both sides of the ferrule together. I don't see any acceptable stripper/crimper combo tool listed on Lowe's site. For a combo unit I do approve of, go here, and type in "Greenlee 1923." You have made friends with Graybar in your city, yes? Best price here.

For more information on connectors and wire types, see this thread. Now give me back the 75 minutes I just spent composing this post.

Here's most everything you need. Probably forgotten something, though. Like the Klein 1005, which I use sometimes rather than the Vaco No. 1900.

 

ship

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Yes. Your locking connectors (the ones that you don't know say Harj-Lock), will use the flag terminals, as they were before all GSPs became "ergonomic." Buy at least a bag of 100 ring flags (for 50 connectors). You may need to stock a total of 4 types: flag and straight times 12-10 ga. for 12/3 cable and 22-18 (or is it 16-14? [may depend on the fixture]) for fixtures. Lucky for you they're inexpensive.

Unless 575w or less fixture, cheap PAR can or otherwise, I would doubt it's using 18ga wire. IN any case, fold the 18ga wire in half and pliers the fold and it becomes about 15ga. Only need to now stock two sizes of flag terminal or if necessary fold again and or fold the 16ga wire and it becomes into the 10-12ga range. I would stock two sizes, 14-16ga, and 10-12ga, but if only one, the largest in opening up a terminal with a scratch awl works only to some extent.
 

gafftapegreenia

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Hey ship, a couple things:

1) I think its VACO, not VATCO.

2) My go-to crimper is a Channellock 909

Note that is trades the places of the insulated/non-insulated crimpers as compared to the Klein #1005


I have felt no need to grind of the cutting tip of the #909 as it has proven to crimp flag terminals just fine.

3) In talking about the Ideal Linesman's pliers, I believe that would be the same as my Klein D213-9NECR
 

ship

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Sorry to re-bring up a response I already replied to earlier. Properly corrected on some things, and on other concepts... we all have our standards and as long as safe - proper. Learn the standards and reasons for them being in use than go your way with what works for you but only after study and trying them all. Otherwise short of that and trying, be very worried and don't short of supervision in someone else's standard based on experience.

On the cable stripper, I don't trust them other than for ethernet or BNC cable. I prefer the diagional side cutter technique of pinch, pull than cut once pulled away from the conductors which works on no matter what type of cable one is using even if Euro or thermoplastic safely. Even the ethernet tool gets out of adjustment at times in not using the BNC tool much.

No magical tools replace skill and technique in these days my guys having more practice at it than I in more often than not flying a desk instead of fixing stuff, and when we race, them at times being close or beating me at times, but never really topping ten years of skill in practice specific to what I do. Still hours on end doing stuff repeditively and in seeing what fails over the years does have it's ability to think towards what might improve on the problem thus what works with experience. Lately I did take home a pneumatic crimp tool while over a weekend in my garage making 24x SOCO plugs, it did speed up my production time a lot.

TBA not the hydrolic but cordless crimp tool as long as I can find one that does a proper insulation displacement crimp.


That blue thing is a "cable (not wire, cable) stripper," Ideal Cat#45-128.

IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - Swivel-Blade Cable Stripper for 3/4 inch and smaller outside diameter cable

Its sole function is to strip the rubber jacket from cable. Personally, I like it, but it does require much attention in use, and has a tendency to want to cut too deeply, thus nicking the insulation of the inner conductors. I'm not sure I could justify spending the ~$26 on such a uni-tasking, specialized tool, however. I'm guessing I purchased it twenty-some years ago for around $10. With practice, a Stanley 99 Retractable-blade Utility knife for $4 is almost as good.

See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/6166-stripping-cable.html for additional discussion.;)
 

gafftapegreenia

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Fair enough ship, you know I always respect your opinion as well as anyone with the credible "voice of experience". However this is an internet forum so we should all feel free to share what has worked for us, and perhaps more importantly, what hasn't.

Out of all the $$$$$$ stripping tools out there, the one that I have used the most since I got it 4 years ago has been none other than the $8 IDEAL T-stripper. At that price, I got two.


As I said, my favorite tool for stripping cable is PRACTICE.

And nothing wrong with necroposting, the information is always valid.
 

ship

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1) Ibid on misspelling error.
2) seems simliar to what's talked about in mechanical advantage and tooth crimp, but in the end its jaw depends on what size it most fits in one jaw not being best for all. Still most Stakon type tools are similar.

3) note where the crimp jaw is in mechanical advantage. My own Klien NE style crimp tools are only used on a jobsite given the same crimp position and at times when reinforced in tension by way of hammer.

That crimp jaw on the NE style plers is less ueeful in pre-planning than something that's really useful for gripping a bolt - especially a stuck nut. Great tool also in avoiding that crimp part in a TBA blister if choking up on the grip, but not as much a crimp tool than a bolt or thingie of various size gripper in use this crimp jaw below the pivot.

This granted I'm more a fan of the Klien than Ideal version but for the most part the same. The Ideal I speak of has it's crimp jaws replacing the cutting jaws in location after piviot.

Hey ship, a couple things:

1) I think its VACO, not VATCO.

2) My go-to crimper is a Channellock 909

Note that is trades the places of the insulated/non-insulated crimpers as compared to the Klein #1005


I have felt no need to grind of the cutting tip of the #909 as it has proven to crimp flag terminals just fine.

3) In talking about the Ideal Linesman's pliers, I believe that would be the same as my Klein D213-9NECR
 

ship

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Now he tells me!
You in breaking that tool I gave you brought this up to me in never broken one before.


So as re-posted, don't give Mayhem a tool of any sort.


After that if used "properly" the Vatco tool will work fine for the high temp. terminals on a Vatco tool. This other if in oher than Mayhem's hands.

Had this guy with sweaty palms that would instantanly rust any tool given. What's worse, Mayhem in tool use or guy that rusts your tools?
 

gafftapegreenia

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One day I will find one of these Vaco tools. I need to start haunting old hardware stores. Or maybe you can convince Klein to make them again, eh Ship.

Interesting idea with those Ideal pliers you have. Might you post a pic (since I love me some tool pics) for illustrative purposes?
 

ship

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Love spring loaded strippers but do prefer my insul grip also similar spring loaded strippers to the photo in type but with more comfort grip in haldle. This specific product in changed no longer sold - they changed the design some. Use the '98 insulated strippers at work and a Klien Kurve at home in liking the ergodynamics over any kiddy short style handles otherwise normally sold these days over the photo and or longer handles.

Credible to choice and thanks, voice of experience to some extent but all of us having our own opinion and equally in balance over and above as it were play testing in opinion but instead debate.

"However this is an internet forum so we should all feel free to share what has worked for us, and perhaps more importantly, what hasn't."


AGREED AND POINT OF THE FORUM - WHAT DO YOU USE? Well put this opening of debate in what we use, not feaing others, open to correction in a raional type of way and or improvement to all in great thing. For years I used my Vatco crimpers for instance for also stripping wire. Didn't know any better. Thus also discussion like 15 years ago I might have learned from in doing so.



Fair enough ship, you know I always respect your opinion as well as anyone with the credible "voice of experience". However this is an internet forum so we should all feel free to share what has worked for us, and perhaps more importantly, what hasn't.

Out of all the $$$$$$ stripping tools out there, the one that I have used the most since I got it 4 years ago has been none other than the $8 IDEAL T-stripper. At that price, I got two.


As I said, my favorite tool for stripping cable is PRACTICE.

And nothing wrong with necroposting, the information is always valid.
 

ship

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One day I will find one of these Vaco tools. I need to start haunting old hardware stores. Or maybe you can convince Klein to make them again, eh Ship.

Interesting idea with those Ideal pliers you have. Might you post a pic (since I love me some tool pics) for illustrative purposes?
Three computers, one in my lair in the garage at home in new don't have them photos yet but works best in free time.

On Vatco, screw the search, do the special order. Who ever is supplying your electrical supplies, contact them and they will get it for you unless Mayhem that's banned from the Vatco product line. :)

Still though the Vatco tool while it I love in having all three sizes in crimp tool is still like 1/8" plate steel punched for multi-tool. This plus I do spefically remember some wicked cuts to the palm or meat of my hand in cutting screws. They also with time need a pounding of the pivot in keeping them tight and functioning. Better the two types of Klien Stakon type double and single jaw tools.
 

gafftapegreenia

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Indeed they did change the grips on the T-Stripper. Still nearly the same in function.

And I whole heartedly agree, I have yet to use an electricians combo tool with the strippers before the pivot that I have been fond of for wire stripping.

Experience, opinion, knowledge and active discussion, the reasons why I have always loved CB.
 

Mayhem

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...don't give Mayhem a tool of any sort.
Of course, Ship has never broken a tool, I'm sure 8) Perhaps he just doesn't have the grip strength :)

What's worse, Mayhem in tool use or guy that rusts your tools?
My vote is with sweaty hands guy! Mayhem looks after his tools and gives them a wipe down with a 50% turps 50% air tool oil mix to keep them rust free. Crimpers were not abused either, or used in a manner other than expected. Even the best tools break from time to time.

So you want the Klein tools back? You have my address, drop in any time. I'll even polish them for you :)

Come to think of it, I don't recall you giving me any information on what they are or are not suitable for! Especially given that you knew I would be using high-temp butt splices to overhaul all my cans.

Tell you what, I'll buy you a beer or two next time I am in the windy city!

...contact them and they will get it for you unless Mayhem that's banned from the Vatco product line.
Wonder if Vatco would send me a full line of their products for quality assurance and general R&D, and product line development? Ship - want to make the call??

Holy cow, look who's back.
Thanks for remembering me. Don't get to excited though, as I am only passing through. Actually was doing a web search on something mechanical, as opposed to theatre specific and a link to CB popped up. Thought I would drop in and spend a few minutes seeing what is going on. Nice to see the growth of CB and then found Ship's dig at me and couldn't let that go unanswered :)
 
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ship

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Good that a dig is answered. Welcome home, hope all is well. Product playtesting, we all should be so lucky especially with tools or lights.


About these days we should call Mayhem Dr.Mayhem I hope. Look forward to the next visit, got another guy in my department - up to four now, all interesting in their own ways but it allows me a bit more freedom for a proper visit next time. Got more lights also and more furnature built for the house. Garage workshop a constant evolution in amount of stuff fit in.

Really, do you really maintain your tools that much? Wow? That's impressive in me not so much if at all.
 
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Mayhem

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Not Dr. Mayhem just yet but getting there. Sometimes research takes a different turn or you hit a dead end and have to back out a bit. Or you have a family crisis that impacts on your workload. But that is life and research in general.

I will be in the US in October but unfortunately not up to the windy city this time. Had to go a cheaper route this year which has me flying direct into Houston for the conference. Direct is actually via Moscow for a refuel and the total journey time is 25 hours! Hopefully next year will be better and we can go tool shopping, sight seeing and beer drinking whilst your four guys do the work! You might have a fifth next year - so even more flexibility!!

And yes - every six months all tools get a going over, as do machine beds on my lathe and drill press. If in the mood my vices also get done. With hand tools, if I notice a bit of rust I will hit it then and there. Remember, rust never sleeps my friend.
 

ship

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Five guys at this point if one includes me or the misc. sick, lame or lazy often assigned, yet we never seem to get caught up or onto past projects put off. Next time in town can employ for a day, or the heck I'll hopefull be able to take off as long as some wall of something don't come up. This season, so far quiet or reletive there of so the shoe no doubt is about to drop. Don't believe we did the 'Tute, or visited Potbellies yet. Much less Jean and Judes.

Still though I'm all about cabinitry and furniture at this point in free time rather than work as it were. Onto powertools or crimpers... just bought a solder sucker.. joke as it were but in sucking solder today manually but with tool, I saw a need for a new toy. Kenisis E-Stop jumpers between racks. Made one and forgot to verify 12" was enough..., nope double that length in me re-sucking solder while my boys were working on Big Light cable repairs in also having to waste time in cleaning up terminals.
 

gafftapegreenia

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Derek, have you actually used one of those?

I haven't bought one yet, I've been frugal lately. LAst thing I bought was a Rocco wrench.
 

derekleffew

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crimps.jpg
The green wire was crimped with a Vaco 1900.
The white wire was crimped with a Klein 1005.
The black wire was crimped with a Matco MST703E.

Because of its short handles, the Matco was the most difficult to use. Notice that its "dent" is not as deep as on the green wire, even though the tool was fully closed.

Not having a tooth, the Klein deforms the entire ferrule.

Although all are serviceable, the winner and still champion, is the (unavailable:() Vaco No. 1900.:lol:
 
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