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Crimp connector / Crimper

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Charc, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    First order of business:

    SPC / stage pin / 2P&G ?! What do I call it? Everyone seems to say something different... :oops:

    Anyways, I was walking through lowes today, and found the klein tools. I noticed that right next to them were a bunch of 10/12AWG crimp on connectors, uh, connector things?

    It occurs to me that this is most likely the safest and fastest way for me to rewire stage pin connectors. I was going to pick up a pack to try out, but I can't for the life of me recall the diameter of the screw in a stage pin connector. The choices were #10 Stud, 1/4", 3/8". Are home depot brand crimp on connectors adequate for the job, or should I be recommending a different brand?

    What about the process of crimping on the wires? Strip 1/4" or so, stick it in the connector, and squeeze crimper? Any other technique to it?

    Some of our stage pins have this weird flat piece on the pins, I'm not sure what that's for.

    What should I be looking for in a crimper? Are there any smallish crimpers? The Klein all-in-one tool I looked at was a monster.
     
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Call it anything except a "stage plug." See this thread... (well I can't find it, but it was the one where JD argued with me about calling a 2P&G a "stage plug." We really need a better search engine, perhaps in v3.0?)
    [EDIT: Only took 4+ years, but I found it! http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ality-dmx-cable-pin-connectors.html#post63847, post #43 and subsequents.]
    Need 3x "Uninsulated Crimp-On Ring Terminals" for the modern 2P&G. Unless you have the older pin connectors that need two right angle ring terminals for the hot and neutral and a straight terminal for the ground. A brand name that has become like Leko and Kleenex is "Sta-Kon,"

    Just to make it more difficult for you McMaster-Carr online catalog, page 719, Part#7113K823, The screw is actually an 8-32, so a 6-8 will work, but I wouldn't go larger than that. If you have older connectors, as I said above, you'll need the "Ring Flag Terminals," page, 721, Part#3125K68. Note these are only for 12g. cable, for instruments that have smaller wire you'll need different terminals. HomeDepot or Lowe's terminals will be fine, provided you can find an exact match, and I'm pretty sure they won't carry the ring flag terminals. Easier to just order from McMaster or equivalent.

    The terminal should come with instructions, but if not, yes. See below.

    Those are known as "shoe terminals," and are designed so that you just stick the stripped wire under the metal plate and tighten the screw. In my opinion, throw those little metal plates away and buy crimp terminals. If you must (or want to) use them, be sure to use the proper conductive LocTite (thread locker) on the screw before tightening. I think they come with split lock washers, but unassembled, so who knows if the lock washers were used by the original installer. In any case, I don't like them, except maybe for wiring a practical that you know you're going to be taking apart soon. Easier to field repair, but breaks more often. Use the right thing the first time and one need not worry about field repair.

    Much issue of debate here. I prefer my Vaco crimper/stripper that has a tooth so that it significantly dents the ferrule. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find this crimper anywhere, and don't remember where I got the one I have. Edit--Vaco is a subset of Klein? or so it appears, never knew that. Since you (I) already have the McMaster catalog open, page 735, part# 7179K41 for $38.74 US, or, because you're partial to Klein, whose website seems to be down at the moment, this. As an aside, you DO have an MMC hard copy catalog, free for the asking, to use as a reference tool, don't you? In my opinion, don't use the crimpers that are flat and just smash both sides of the ferrule together. I don't see any acceptable stripper/crimper combo tool listed on Lowe's site. For a combo unit I do approve of, go here, and type in "Greenlee 1923." You have made friends with Graybar in your city, yes? Best price here.

    For more information on connectors and wire types, see this thread. Now give me back the 75 minutes I just spent composing this post.

    Here's most everything you need. Probably forgotten something, though. Like the Klein 1005, which I use sometimes rather than the Vaco No. 1900.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  3. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    Some great data here, Derek.

    Non-insulated is in-fact the preferred connection type? I suppose that makes sense.

    The ring flag note is especially helpful. I have seen this configuration employed in some of our connectors, and it looks like I'd need to stock both. My thought is the center crimp-on-connector is the same as a "standard" connector, right? So I can stock more of the center type, and less of the flag type.

    So it looks like #8 stud is the way to go. Your links are broken, but I managed to track-down the pages you mentioned.

    <45 minutes? You're making this a full-time occupation. However, I don't believe that thread hit all of these specific issues.>
     
  4. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    One small warning: Not all crimps and crimpers are created equal. Back in the "Leads and Northrup" days (now known as Northrup Grumman), the only acceptable crimpers were "detent and release" style units. (like these - http://www.arizonatools.com/tools/contractor-crimpers-and-wire-strippers_cutters/detail/GRNK30GL/ (overkill)) These would not release until the proper force was applied. The type sold at hardware stores requires some subjective judgment. Before you start doing your connectors, do a few practice crimps on the type of wire you will be using. Try to pull the wire back out of the crimp after you are done. This will give you a good feel for the tool.
     
  5. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The plastic smushes around, taking force away from the actual crimp.
     
  6. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    My favorite crimp tool has always been the Klein Tools Model 1005. [Link to Lowe's.] Works like a charm, every time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2007
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Yes. Your locking connectors (the ones that you don't know say Harj-Lock), will use the flag terminals, as they were before all GSPs became "ergonomic." Buy at least a bag of 100 ring flags (for 50 connectors). You may need to stock a total of 4 types: flag and straight times 12-10 ga. for 12/3 cable and 22-18 (or is it 16-14? [may depend on the fixture]) for fixtures. Lucky for you they're inexpensive.

    The broken links are McMaster-Carr's fault, not mine. I should have "de-linked" them though, and am going to do that now.

    JD, the crimper to which you referred does seem like overkill, unless one is doing hundreds at a time. Good point about "becoming one with your crimper."

    Soundlight, I like and have one of those crimpers also, but I prefer my Vaco No. 1900, even though I don't like its strippers. I like the big dent it makes into the back of the ferrule.

    Gafftaper, should weigh in and pay attention to this, as he will soon have at least 133 connectors to install. It can be fun and very "zen," but one must have the correct tools to do a proper job.

    My roommate, when building cables in the 1970's, was taught to dip the terminals in a solder pot after crimping. I've never seen that done, and don't recommend it today.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Almost feel as if my word is as if written in some holy book to be quoted. Nope, just that my concepts in crimping I got in the industry and college when I got where I got exactly matched in concept and with agreement style that of where I work that wound up in the same way by also having studied the concept. In other words, a crimp tool that displaces material instead of crushes that material tends to work better in crimping - no matter the crimp type, than those types of crimp tool that smashes a crimp.

    Overall theory is in making a crimp sufficiently encapsulate and apply even pressure to all parts of the stranded wire surface by way of a tooth displacing crimp material into the wire well area so the individual strands of wire lacks area to deflect and shift to where there is less pressure. This as opposed to a sort of crushing crimp such as an oval crimp which simply as if pliers or a vise smashing the crimp onto the wire, some parts about the wire having a more as it were intimate connection with the crimp terminal than those areas of the wire strands that are towards the edges which do not have as much pressure applied to them. It’s a general concept of if a circle has the same ID as an oval once the circle is smashed or one more C-Shaped tooth crimped circle now has less ID.

    Those McMaster Carr tools listed are not persay the best nor Klien or Stakon insulation displacement type. They will work for the most part but not what I would choose other than as plausible type of tooth tool that will work. The jaw itself is cut away in recess sub-jaw similar to am AMP crimp tool in doing damage to the normal crimp in a way that is hard to explain. Still it is economical and easy to get.

    Ah’ the Vatco 1900 tool... Not good as a wire stipper and at times even sufficient as a larger size bolt cutter, but them crimp jaws work well for most not high temperature crimp terminals, and to the best of my knowledge, is the only tool that has all three main wire gauges on the proper side of the hinge in one tool. Metal thickness on the crimp tool is not extreme but sufficient. As I was told in approving this tool “not the best but marginally sufficient.” Still not the greatest of tools but a overall good tool. This tool is perhaps the only tool on the market that will crimp a flag terminal (90 degree ring terminals) without needing special work with a grinder to get rid of the cutting edge that otherwise damages the crimp. This granted that for a 12ga wire on a flag terminal into the 16ga crimp jaw at the edge of such a Vatco tool, it is not proper but does work better than other methods otherwise available. Watch them wire stripping jaws when cutting a screw - them is dangerous in making nasty cuts into the meat of your hand. Best to grind the stripper jaws away but be careful not to grind away the stops or you could over crimp and stress the wire crimped in over tension. This plus the Vatco tool, being a rivet and only 1/8" steel does deflect and bend in making screw cuts not always nice, and or getting a bent or broken tool. Not so bad as some metric screw cutter multi-tools I have used over the years made out of very much lesser grades of steel - sufficient to bend the tool before it cuts a screw,. But still while ability to cut a screw in length is useful, such a tool is not optimum for larger screws.

    Than again, I gave Mayhem a set of them a few years ago. He recently sent me an E-Mail about having broken them (in the photo). Ah’ what a shame and that was one of four I bought and that tool goes back years with me, but I can easily see how it could happen - I still use a pair at home and often question when they will break. Don’t use such a tool on high temperature crimp terminals.

    These days I more use the Klien 1005 and 1006 crimp tools. Same tooth, more rugged. Granted I have no idea of why such a tool has a set of dikes at the tip and often grind such a cutting tool off so I can now use them for flag terminals. These are the proper “Stakon” tools - just by a different brand. Many brands of tool offer the exact same product which no doubt if not exact same in spec. are made by the same company just with different brand names on them. Two tools however to buy as opposed to the Vatco all in one tool. The #1005 is a “insulated crimp” and 14-16ga crimp jaw tool for “uninsulated crimp termilals.” The #1006 is for 10-12ga and 18-22ga crimp termials also of “uninsulated crimp terminals.” Ignore the “insulated” or “non-insulated” nature of your crimp terminal. The pressure of the crimp tool will displace any vinyl or nylon in the way sufficient to let the jaw of the crimp tool displace the terminal barrel sufficiently that you will get a proper crimp. Only real purpose of the insulated crimp (when you don’t apply adhesive lined heat shrink over it) is to insulate the barrel or even area of the crimp against shorting. The jaw displacing thru the insulation and crimp won’t effect this insulation over the rest of the terminal. If in doubt, wrap the say vinyl insulation in electrical tape or heat shrink tubing and it’s now back to protecting conducting parts of the crimp sufficiently. Still stick with the jaw type displacement of the material instead of just crushing the crimp terminal.

    One should note different “seats” or “saddles” available in what is a #1005 verses #1006 in a Klien brand proper “Stakon” tool. The #1005 most closely conforms to a Vatco #14-16 wire gauge size, the #1006 tool than more closely conforms to the Vatco other two sizes. On the #1005 tool, that oval crimp is not useful for crimping wire but is useful in prepping your Nicopress oval sleeves for their proper crimp - this especially for 1/16" crimps. Just use the oval crimp to get a certain tension onto your wire rope crimp so it does not move before you give it the proper wire rope crimp. Also useful in ovaling and or rounding out certain stuff or in gripping stuck screw threads. Lots of leverage to that oval and that is what it is good for in my opinon.

    Grind away them front dike jaws but do so really carefully because both the stop and the saddle are in perrel if you grind away even just a bit too much as commonly done. Grind away too much and it is only good as a flag terminal crimp tool. Grind away too much of the tip of the tool and it now damages crimp terminals crimped under it due to the saddle having too much cut away from it. In other words, be really careful in how much of the front edge you grind away = 50% of all of this type crimp tool will be lost by over ambition in grinding away the front cutting edge if you are not really really careful. Half my crimp tools of that type now are designated only for doing flag terminals now due to this over ambitious grinding.

    I do not recommend grinding away that front cutting edge of a “Stakon tool” unless you have need of crimping old style Union 2P&G (meaning two pin and ground pin) / Stage Pin (as now said) / Slip plug terminals. Got like five of these tools in my work box now between shop tools and my own and only two of them I feel have the proper cut to them once grinded or not so at all in having gotten to it yet. Ignore the cutting tip and use the tool as designed in having stops for a proper tension as designed.

    That said. While not ideal, I do also allow a ratcheting tooth Paladin tool for crimping terminals at work. It’s jaws are a bit wide but it does do a good job in not releasing until the proper tension, that you have a good crimp. Beyond the concept of a tooth verses oval crimp tool is just getting that crimp tight enough so it don’t pull loose. Over the years there has been a lot of lamp bars with internal crimps becoming a constant problem of some wire pulling free not just because of the wrong crimp tool used, but because some weak wristed hack crimped sufficient to them but not sufficient to make a proper connection. Back to the concept that if you screw to a wall three crimps of 12/3 SOOW cable, you should be able to not just hang from it but bounce on it without the crimps failing by way of either over or under-crimped terminals. A very good test of one’s crimping ability I often state that I learned in college while studying the Union type connector.

    Onto the Lowes ring terminals. Every stage pin plug I am aware of uses a #8-32 screw on it thus the #8 ring terminal - insulated or not is the proper size to fit. Insulated ring terminals for the most part on many styles of stage pin plug will work, otherwise you just grab the ring in one pair of pliers and the vinyl insulation in another and just kind of twist and pull and such a thing quickly gets removed. That said, the standard #8 un-insulated or insulated ring terminal is not what you want to be using on a old school Union plug. That distance between the barrel and the ring on a Union plug is much shorter than that of a regular ring terminal. Be mindful of this. You can make it work but it is not easy and McMaster don’t sell Union Connector type ring terminals. They do sell the proper flag terminals however in even 14-16ga.

    I shop at Lowes and Menards (Home Depot not close) at times to stock my own garage and such sutff while more expensive than in buying it by the 100 packages will work. At times you also have to add in shipping costs to any mail order type orders. Also used to have this Ace Hardware in my area that not just stocked the Vatco 1900 tool but also stocked the 100 packs of ring terminals. Sad to say that just as everywhere else, they no longer do. Even stocked 7.5 watt outside frost blue lamps for use in my clip lights... lucky if one can find another source, but alas they don’t. On the other hand, as long as not the grumpy old men at your local Ace Hardware, True Value who don’t take you seriously, it is more possible to get what you can really use thru them in stock than thru the chain store. This much less, good luck finding most screw sizes in the grade you want thru the chin store at a reasonable price.

    I digress, yep, go to Lowes if you only need a few and it is economical. Such a crimp should work with your style of stage pin plug if not Bates, ProPin possibly Lex or Union. Need to get the proper size stud hole to the crimp ring terminal however. It’s possible that Lowes sells the right #8 size or #6-8 size but sometimes there is holes in what they stock for certain wire gauges especially. If not for #8 stud, nope, it is not correct.

    Home Depot brand verses Lowes... they don’t make ring terminals, most likely they carry a brand of ring terminals such as Ideal or Stakon etc. which make a well within standard to the industry crimp terminal that would be sufficient. All are normally the same - often it is just the flair at the edge of the vinyl insulation that will spell the difference between brands. That detail will only come to play when dealing with thicker insulation or duble wires into one terminal.

    On stripping the wire... I am sure each pack of crimp terminals have a instruction part on them which tells you how much insulation to strip off. For me I tend to range between 3/16" and 1/4" and this more depends upon what type of wire I am stipping. I tend to strip often a bit less from a rubberized wire than a thermoset wire. The rubber wire will in the crimp terminal allow me to push that insulation back a bit on the conductor thus have a bit of bunched up material behind the crimp, this as opposed to on thermoset wire (plastic) that won’t give as well. For that and ideal in general, you want the wire to range between going to the tip of the crimp to extending beyond it by a maximum of 1/16". Main concept especially with insulation that moves and displaces is to bunch up a bit of it outside the crimp so that if that wire has moved or bent, you have insulation covering the wire.


    Flat piece on the pins... as it were... Not totally sure what you mean but probably it means that you have old style Union if not second generation plug where a ring terminal is intended to be installed onto the pin. (This granted that McMaster either just started or has always carried a type of wire washer you wrap around the wire than screw a screw into that wrap in terminating it. - past search of mine for such a thing.)

    “All in one tools” are often not what you need, if often just crap. Nuff said - see above. “Smallish crimpers”... yep often people just getting into the industry will attempt to blend into society and by a smallish Linesmen tool also... Neither will function as well as wished for - and you let me catch you with such at tool and you are in for some intensive training in why you wasted your money in something not allowed for you to use thus that you take home at the end of the day and never bring back. Multi-tools... useless - save your money and buy a tool for its purpose not a all in one problem solver. Even in considering such a thing I am sure you can tell a certain difference in quality of what might seem to work verses what would be ideal for any purpose.

    Derekleffew.... dissappointed in ya for speaking my name as if some benchmark but not understanding what I might advise. Best to make advice your own in while not always right as mine also is not, it relies upon your own recommendation and though and not a basis of standpoint upon others that should be unapproachable unless incorrect.

    Good to help, good to offer thoughts but I disagree with your advice. First, while there might be an electrically competent Threadlocker compound, I am yet to ever in the years use one. For me, electrical connections have always and possibly will always be mechanical in nature. Metal especially under current and resistance expands and contracts, relying upon a glue to stick two different surfaces together given this, and be sufficient afterwards to withstand vibration and further use is almost an oxymoron.

    For most uses of non-current conditions I normally specify one or three types of Threadlocker if not Vibertight compound, when not at times also supplemented by also a type of mechanical means but for electrical connections I never specify a threadlocker compound for any connection. Mechanical means of staying tight for me means one of a few methods instead. Belleville washer that is a cone shape and upon tension becomes tighter about the screw in resistance, external tooth lock washers where possible or for those screws that don’t have a head sufficient to use them internal tooth lock washers, than spring lock lock washers for normal bolt activity to supplement lock type nuts. Than you get into material grades, Silicone bronze for a better material to conduct than zinc plated steel given a high enough current.

    This all dependant upon material and current. For the most part I still rely upon mechanical means of fastening rather than any locking of the threads while under current. This especially on any even plug used. I fully expect that any plug 20A or more once used for a time under current will settle and especially in the 30A up to the 60A stage pin size, it is going to need a re-tightening after used initially. That shake the plug test to test for a loose terminal simply cannot be bypassed for other than stage pin plugs where there would be a rattle given tolerances. Even for well used say 60A stage pin plugs, once a year at very least if not more often every time they are used, it it proper and advised to re-torque them once a year at least. Otherwise, even wire that seemingly has settled under the set screws and even under a ferrule, or screws that have been tensioned under a lock washer can fail due to further settling. No idea of how many from 30A to 60A plugs I have had to replace over the years due to loose terminals but it is the case of expansion and contraction and wires settling in most all cases as the problem that caused a plug to melt down.

    On a 20A stage pin plug, if crimp type one might expect if given a tooth type crimp tool it will no longer need to settle and it most likely wont. Add a external tooth silicone bronze lock washer to the plug and it most likely will be fine... don’t have all the above and under full load for a period of time - just as with those of you Euro type plugs... you need to inspect again at least after a year each connection. Lots of examples in the past of failures no matter the plug type, and stuff that was just fine... don’t know before it fails unless one inspects every connection out of preventative maintenance. This even if torquing the heck out of a plug, it still can settle up to and including a CamLoc type plug which I normally don’t have problems with in going five pounds over the specified torque on. 400A.. Yep over torque it you have a problem, go under it and you also do. Five pounds for me means compensation for settling in the wire on this plug type.

    Torque also means something.... how many people really read and follow that little pamphlet that comes with every new plug you buy? How many people match the wire strip lengths up to what if often marked inside each plug for proper length? In many ways it I expect is a “I’m a guy thus know how to” type of thing yet one would be surprised how much problems a inproper strip length especially with the insulation inside the crimp terminal problems will cause with a connection. Plug says 5/8" stripped on the conductor.... someone stripped 1/4" and shoved it all into the terminal. You now have most of the conductor under a terminal as the insulation of the conductor preventing current flow as opposed to a good connection - yet most even “Professional Union” types are beyond simply reading the instructions on a plug, or even looking at what they are doing so as to see if they are doing something wrong. This beyond some grounding conductor on a plug hooked up to a hot terminal.


    “Shoe Terminals” are the laymens term for ferrule and are most used on Bates, Pro-Pin or Lex type stage pin plugs. Such a terminal or ferrule can be crimped or not. Hmm, ferrule crimp tool... sweat - I love both my sizes of ferrule crimp tool, they are really useful for project work but debatable for use on a stage pin plug.

    Pneumatic crimp tool for ring terminals???? possible.. Got one for Socapex and Hoist Cable plugs but not one yet for ring terminals and hope not to need one.... But such a tool is possible.

    Below is Mayhem's Vatco 1900 tool I gave him and he promptly broke while crimping some high temperature crimp terminals... and as of a few years ago some of the tools in my own tool box. Got more since than to play with and that's the electrical tool drawer. Since than I had to move screw drivers out of that drawer etc. Lots of toys to play with, and evey tool/toy has a purpose. This not including pneumatic or ratcheting multi pin type toys.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    This, as usual, has been a good thread. Not much to add on my part, I've just been learning along with the rest of the readers. My crimps are just like the red handled set made by Klien except Crescent, but I'm buying Klein everything else now. Charc your lucky to have the funds to build up such a nice kit in high school, I should have started sooner.
    Gotta say I love my local ACE, ACO (Southeastern Michigan chain) and "ma & pa" hardware stores. They have that odd stuff you'd have to order otherwise.
    So you can't find blue outside frost medium Edison screw base 7.5 watt S11 lamps? Time to make friends with your local industrial/commercial lighting supplier. Mine here in Detroit carries the S11's for about 90 cents a lamp. Why pay $2.50 from a big hardware store? ACO had a two-pack of 25W A-lamps for $3.20. I needed some for my Christmas display, went to my supplier and got a 4 pack for a $1.20! Of course you could always order a box of the S11's from Action Lighting too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  10. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I've joked with STEVETERRY offline regarding WWSTD?--What Would Steve Terry Do?, and hold you in the same regard. WWSD?--What Would Ship Do?...is complimentary, regardless of your unwillingness to be accepted as an expert.

    Point taken. I have removed your name from all of my above posts.

    You are correct. I looked at the batch of ring flag terminals I had ordered in error (for #6 stud). And now I remember having to drill them out slightly. I last used them in 2000. I have corrected my first post.

    I believe you are mistaken. This picture,
    [​IMG]
    from this site, would indicate to me that "Shoe Terminals" are the little pieces of brass to which Charcoaldabs is referring. And I've found they tend to loosen up more than any other, thus my suggestion for lock washers and/or adhesive. I define "ferrule" as the part of the terminal the stripped wire goes in to, is that your definition also? This is as what I have referred to as shoe connectors, and I believe we discussed this with gafftaper when he asked which 2P&G connector he should order for his theatre. Gaff--do you have the link to that thread?

    It's a VACO #1900, not Vatco, and if you can direct me to a source for a direct replacement I would appreciate it. I've been looking for years, since I started compiling two sets of tools, one for work and one for home. I suspect that Klein purchased Vaco at some point in the past.

    I said hydraulic, not pneumatic, it's more than possible. I have seen such a tool. It used a foot pedal, and was the ratcheting type, with changeable dies. Probably discontinued, as it was old when I saw it abound 1985.

    You have learned the difference between then and than exactly backwards (makes your writing hard to follow for me): I've been watching your writings. Use then when talking about time, and than when doing a comparison.

    Thanks for all your contributions. I hope we haven't made Charc regret asking the question. It's obvious both of us are passionate about correct installation of pin connectors!

    Here's a fun document to while away the hours.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  11. Sean

    Sean Active Member

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    [QUOTE=derekleffew;74897Here's a fun document to while away the hours.[/QUOTE]

    Link doesn't work.


    --Sean
     
  12. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    Sean likes this.
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Fixed in last edit. Thank you, Charc and Sean.
     
  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    spelling asside and passions on proper ways of doing things under debate and discussion in both and all learning from each other.


    This from McMaster Carr I believe most describes what you describe, yet I have heard of the ferrule described as a "shoe terminal" and it would normally fit within the type of plug in the photo given a plate under the screw terminal that applies pressure to the wire. The other type and I think we both are thinking the same concept of really old style wire washer not even below but similar in concept I don't think the same. I use odd brands such as presented only for adaptors - it's a Bates shop for most purposes. Given this and that I don't wire as much cable these days some forgetting is manditory on my part as opposed to having to figure out stuff like PXA-48 lamps.

    About other stuff spelling etc. Yep... word processors etc. and differences in ways of doing things that should be respected in both our ways of doing so. End user is best given what is presented and knowledge of choices than deciding himself thus the overall intended service of this forum.

    Ferrules I define as ferrules not that part of the wire set into the crimp part of a termilal. For instance on a Leko, I will use a un-insulated 12ga 9681K65 with a insulated 16ga 7950K94 sleeved inside it for use on a Bates style plug. This if not also doing a 14ga crimp between ferrules if fine standed. McMaster Carr part numbers. By the way, the ferrule crimp tool is also really cool.

    Pneumatic/hydrolyc etc... for me the same concept only pneumatic fast enough to be efficient other than if under large load. Vaco.. Vatco, posting from memory that spelling, good to keep me checking myself thanks. On buying another, if still made it would be available thru anyone that supplies Klien tools as a special order. Sorry, other than "Lens Ace Hardware" in Addison Illinois in the past, I don't know of anyone that even used to stock that tool. I do know if still availalible most electrical supply shops would be willing to special order it without a problem. On that tool I always wanted to laminate two of these tools together so as to get more strength and surface area on the crimp. Never got that far but it was a concept.

    Out of McMaster Carr - the following I think is the third option discussed but don't think it best for such plugs:

    Terminal Cup Washers

    Made entirely of brass, these terminal cup grounding washers help make firm electrical connections. They prevent wire from slipping out from under the screw head. ID and OD tolerance is ±0.010".
    Screw Pkg.
    Size ID OD Qty. Per Pkg.

    6 0.153" 0.504" 10 93720A011 $8.74

    8 0.168" 0.453" 10 93720A015 8.91

    8 0.178" 0.518" 10 93720A020 9.46

    10 0.200" 0.507" 10 93720A025 8.82

    10 0.200" 0.453" 10 93720A030 8.82


    Washers
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  15. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Well, ship and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. He likes Bates connectors, and I prefer Union Connector brand. Union Connector made the original for Bates Electric in the 1930's, and recently (10 years ago?) Marinco/Advanced Devices resurrected the name. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

    By the way ship, Union Connector 20a-2P&G plugs/connectors come in "pressure plate" and "crimp lug" here. Hardly an "odd brand."
     
  16. Sean

    Sean Active Member

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    I know I'm hijacking just a bit, but I'm a fan of the "direct wire" connectors. Advanced Devices/Bates/etc plugs with the wire shoes.
    I am not a fan of the body shape of the Union Connector plugs. I find the "hour-glass" shape more difficult to grab while wearing gloves. When I specified equipment for our new space I requested "Bates".
    Everyone has different opinions--including some on my staff. One likes the pressure-plate style. One likes ring-crimps.
    But, I'm the boss. ;)
     
  17. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Hey, I found the thread I was looking for. (You have to keep separate the two discussions of DMX cable and Gafftaper's GSP connectors.)

    For clarification purposes:
    There are currently two basic shapes of 20A-2P&G connectors:
    "Hour Glass": (uses 2 cover screws) Union Connector brand, EPS
    "Trapezoidal": (uses 3 cover screws) Bates (Marinco/Advanced Devices), Rosco, TMB ProPin

    There are three methods of attaching wires to pins:
    "Crimp Lugs": UC, Bates (ring terminal), EPS (Crimp Termination), Rosco DT (Dual Termination)
    "Pressure Plate": UC, EPS (Shoe Termination)
    "Ferrule": TMB ProPin, Bates (Barrel Terminal), Rosco DT (Dual Termination)

    Rosco and EPS give you a choice of two different termination methods with the same connector. UC and Bates must be specified at time of order. All are available with Black, Clear, and assorted color covers. Personally, I like the clear covers for easy visual inspection.

    Isn't it great to have so many choices?
     
  18. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Here's most everything you need. Probably forgotten something, though. Like the Klein 1005, which I use sometimes rather than the Vaco No. 1900.
    [​IMG]
    [/SIZE][/QUOTE]


    Ya know Derek, I just realized, what exactly is that blue thing, how does it work, and is it worth it?
     
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    That blue thing is a "cable (not wire, cable) stripper," Ideal Cat#45-128.
    [​IMG]
    IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - Swivel-Blade Cable Stripper for 3/4 inch and smaller outside diameter cable

    Its sole function is to strip the rubber jacket from cable. Personally, I like it, but it does require much attention in use, and has a tendency to want to cut too deeply, thus nicking the insulation of the inner conductors. I'm not sure I could justify spending the ~$26 on such a uni-tasking, specialized tool, however. I'm guessing I purchased it twenty-some years ago for around $10. With practice, a Stanley 99 Retractable-blade Utility knife for $4 is almost as good.

    See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/6166-stripping-cable.html for additional discussion.;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
  20. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Oh man, that thread certainly raised a ruckus as I remember.

    I have concluded there is no perfect way besides practice to strip the jacket.

    My current preferred method is with a short blade like this:
    [​IMG]

    But, of course, since I have a multi-tool fetish, mine is on my Swiss Army knife.
    [​IMG]
     

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