# Crimp connector / Crimper

#### Charc

##### Well-Known Member

SPC / stage pin / 2P&G ?! What do I call it? Everyone seems to say something different...

Anyways, I was walking through lowes today, and found the klein tools. I noticed that right next to them were a bunch of 10/12AWG crimp on connectors, uh, connector things?

It occurs to me that this is most likely the safest and fastest way for me to rewire stage pin connectors. I was going to pick up a pack to try out, but I can't for the life of me recall the diameter of the screw in a stage pin connector. The choices were #10 Stud, 1/4", 3/8". Are home depot brand crimp on connectors adequate for the job, or should I be recommending a different brand?

What about the process of crimping on the wires? Strip 1/4" or so, stick it in the connector, and squeeze crimper? Any other technique to it?

Some of our stage pins have this weird flat piece on the pins, I'm not sure what that's for.

What should I be looking for in a crimper? Are there any smallish crimpers? The Klein all-in-one tool I looked at was a monster.

#### derekleffew

##### Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
...SPC / stage pin / 2P&G ?! What do I call it? Everyone seems to say something different...
Call it anything except a "stage plug." See this thread... (well I can't find it, but it was the one where JD argued with me about calling a 2P&G a "stage plug." We really need a better search engine, perhaps in v3.0?)
[EDIT: Only took 4+ years, but I found it! http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ality-dmx-cable-pin-connectors.html#post63847, post #43 and subsequents.]
Anyways, I was walking through lowes today, and found the klein tools. I noticed that right next to them were a bunch of 10/12AWG crimp on connectors, uh, connector things?
Need 3x "Uninsulated Crimp-On Ring Terminals" for the modern 2P&G. Unless you have the older pin connectors that need two right angle ring terminals for the hot and neutral and a straight terminal for the ground. A brand name that has become like Leko and Kleenex is "Sta-Kon,"

It occurs to me that this is most likely the safest and fastest way for me to rewire stage pin connectors. I was going to pick up a pack to try out, but I can't for the life of me recall the diameter of the screw in a stage pin connector. The choices were #10 Stud, 1/4", 3/8". Are home depot brand crimp on connectors adequate for the job, or should I be recommending a different brand?
Just to make it more difficult for you McMaster-Carr online catalog, page 719, Part#7113K823, The screw is actually an 8-32, so a 6-8 will work, but I wouldn't go larger than that. If you have older connectors, as I said above, you'll need the "Ring Flag Terminals," page, 721, Part#3125K68. Note these are only for 12g. cable, for instruments that have smaller wire you'll need different terminals. HomeDepot or Lowe's terminals will be fine, provided you can find an exact match, and I'm pretty sure they won't carry the ring flag terminals. Easier to just order from McMaster or equivalent.

What about the process of crimping on the wires? Strip 1/4" or so, stick it in the connector, and squeeze crimper? Any other technique to it?
The terminal should come with instructions, but if not, yes. See below.

Some of our stage pins have this weird flat piece on the pins, I'm not sure what that's for.
Those are known as "shoe terminals," and are designed so that you just stick the stripped wire under the metal plate and tighten the screw. In my opinion, throw those little metal plates away and buy crimp terminals. If you must (or want to) use them, be sure to use the proper conductive LocTite (thread locker) on the screw before tightening. I think they come with split lock washers, but unassembled, so who knows if the lock washers were used by the original installer. In any case, I don't like them, except maybe for wiring a practical that you know you're going to be taking apart soon. Easier to field repair, but breaks more often. Use the right thing the first time and one need not worry about field repair.

What should I be looking for in a crimper? Are there any smallish crimpers? The Klein all-in-one tool I looked at was a monster.

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#### derekleffew

##### Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
Almost feel as if my word is as if written in some holy book to be quoted.
I've joked with STEVETERRY offline regarding WWSTD?--What Would Steve Terry Do?, and hold you in the same regard. WWSD?--What Would Ship Do?...is complimentary, regardless of your unwillingness to be accepted as an expert.

Derekleffew.... dissappointed in ya for speaking my name as if some benchmark but not understanding what I might advise. Best to make advice your own in while not always right as mine also is not, it relies upon your own recommendation and though and not a basis of standpoint upon others that should be unapproachable unless incorrect.
Point taken. I have removed your name from all of my above posts.

Onto the Lowes ring terminals. Every stage pin plug I am aware of uses a #8-32 screw on it thus the #8 ring terminal - insulated or not is the proper size to fit.
You are correct. I looked at the batch of ring flag terminals I had ordered in error (for #6 stud). And now I remember having to drill them out slightly. I last used them in 2000. I have corrected my first post.

Flat piece on the pins... as it were... Not totally sure what you mean but probably it means that you have old style Union if not second generation plug where a ring terminal is intended to be installed onto the pin....

...“Shoe Terminals” are the laymens term for ferrule and are most used on Bates, Pro-Pin or Lex type stage pin plugs. Such a terminal or ferrule can be crimped or not...
I believe you are mistaken. This picture,

from this site, would indicate to me that "Shoe Terminals" are the little pieces of brass to which Charcoaldabs is referring. And I've found they tend to loosen up more than any other, thus my suggestion for lock washers and/or adhesive. I define "ferrule" as the part of the terminal the stripped wire goes in to, is that your definition also? This is as what I have referred to as shoe connectors, and I believe we discussed this with gafftaper when he asked which 2P&G connector he should order for his theatre. Gaff--do you have the link to that thread?

Ah’ the Vatco 1900 tool...
It's a VACO #1900, not Vatco, and if you can direct me to a source for a direct replacement I would appreciate it. I've been looking for years, since I started compiling two sets of tools, one for work and one for home. I suspect that Klein purchased Vaco at some point in the past.

Pneumatic crimp tool for ring terminals???? possible.. Got one for Socapex and Hoist Cable plugs but not one yet for ring terminals and hope not to need one.... But such a tool is possible...
I said hydraulic, not pneumatic, it's more than possible. I have seen such a tool. It used a foot pedal, and was the ratcheting type, with changeable dies. Probably discontinued, as it was old when I saw it abound 1985.

...Got more since than to play with and that's the electrical tool drawer. Since than I had to move screw drivers out of that drawer etc...
You have learned the difference between then and than exactly backwards (makes your writing hard to follow for me): I've been watching your writings. Use then when talking about time, and than when doing a comparison.

Thanks for all your contributions. I hope we haven't made Charc regret asking the question. It's obvious both of us are passionate about correct installation of pin connectors!

Here's a fun document to while away the hours.

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#### Sean

##### Active Member
document[/URL] to while away the hours.

--Sean

#### derekleffew

##### Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
Fixed in last edit. Thank you, Charc and Sean.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
spelling asside and passions on proper ways of doing things under debate and discussion in both and all learning from each other.

This from McMaster Carr I believe most describes what you describe, yet I have heard of the ferrule described as a "shoe terminal" and it would normally fit within the type of plug in the photo given a plate under the screw terminal that applies pressure to the wire. The other type and I think we both are thinking the same concept of really old style wire washer not even below but similar in concept I don't think the same. I use odd brands such as presented only for adaptors - it's a Bates shop for most purposes. Given this and that I don't wire as much cable these days some forgetting is manditory on my part as opposed to having to figure out stuff like PXA-48 lamps.

About other stuff spelling etc. Yep... word processors etc. and differences in ways of doing things that should be respected in both our ways of doing so. End user is best given what is presented and knowledge of choices than deciding himself thus the overall intended service of this forum.

Ferrules I define as ferrules not that part of the wire set into the crimp part of a termilal. For instance on a Leko, I will use a un-insulated 12ga 9681K65 with a insulated 16ga 7950K94 sleeved inside it for use on a Bates style plug. This if not also doing a 14ga crimp between ferrules if fine standed. McMaster Carr part numbers. By the way, the ferrule crimp tool is also really cool.

Pneumatic/hydrolyc etc... for me the same concept only pneumatic fast enough to be efficient other than if under large load. Vaco.. Vatco, posting from memory that spelling, good to keep me checking myself thanks. On buying another, if still made it would be available thru anyone that supplies Klien tools as a special order. Sorry, other than "Lens Ace Hardware" in Addison Illinois in the past, I don't know of anyone that even used to stock that tool. I do know if still availalible most electrical supply shops would be willing to special order it without a problem. On that tool I always wanted to laminate two of these tools together so as to get more strength and surface area on the crimp. Never got that far but it was a concept.

Out of McMaster Carr - the following I think is the third option discussed but don't think it best for such plugs:

Terminal Cup Washers

Made entirely of brass, these terminal cup grounding washers help make firm electrical connections. They prevent wire from slipping out from under the screw head. ID and OD tolerance is ±0.010".
Screw Pkg.
Size ID OD Qty. Per Pkg.

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#### gafftapegreenia

##### CBMod
CB Mods
Oh man, that thread certainly raised a ruckus as I remember.

I have concluded there is no perfect way besides practice to strip the jacket.

My current preferred method is with a short blade like this:

But, of course, since I have a multi-tool fetish, mine is on my Swiss Army knife.