So, the high school I just graduated from has hired me to do some summer housecleaning in the theater, and part of my job is determining what to keep and what to get rid of, since they're finally starting to buy some new gear (starting with several Source Fours and S4 PARs last summer). There was a lot of equipment that we never even used anyway, so I have quite the "trash" pile now; I'm counting ten 360Q's, four PAR64's, a few 65Q's, and the occasional part or 360Q lens assembly. Now, the PARs are going because 1) they're never used, 2) they don't have safety screens, and 3) most of them seem to have some shoddy wiring anyway due to heat damage. Those ellipsoidals, though, weren't in great shape for the most part. I did a lot of part-salvaging and swapping, but I still ended up with ten partial or complete fixtures with problems ranging from bolts that refuse to budge and unusably warped shutter curtains to severe rust and corrosion on internal parts. So, I have a question: what am I supposed to do with them now? Throw them in the trash? Take them to a metal recycler?
Fixture disposal
- Thread starterJinglish
- Start date
Two thoughts, admittedly neither of which is helpful to your predicament, come to mind.
1. KnowledgeBase: Can I Recycle a Source Four? - Electronic Theatre Controls
2. From a previously released and now seemingly unavailable brochure:
1. KnowledgeBase: Can I Recycle a Source Four? - Electronic Theatre Controls
2. From a previously released and now seemingly unavailable brochure:
I'm a firm believer in keeping most everything. You never know when you are going to need a few more parts. But in a school with no real tech expert on staff it's probably best to get rid of them.
However, what you describe as junk is a jackpot of free useful parts in the hands of the right person. The PAR cans can be rewired and used for years. The 360Q parts can be cannibalized and used to repair other instruments. Call around to the local small community theaters in your area. I'm sure someone in the area would take your pile of spare parts and love them, repair them, cannibalize them, or use them. This is also a great opportunity for you to meet and make friends with some local lighting people.
However, what you describe as junk is a jackpot of free useful parts in the hands of the right person. The PAR cans can be rewired and used for years. The 360Q parts can be cannibalized and used to repair other instruments. Call around to the local small community theaters in your area. I'm sure someone in the area would take your pile of spare parts and love them, repair them, cannibalize them, or use them. This is also a great opportunity for you to meet and make friends with some local lighting people.
Jinglish at [email protected]
Again, these will be restored and utilized for a grassroots organization (Friends of Yasgurs Road) and implemented on Max Yasgur's farm for our annual celebrations down at Max Yasgur's home (the man who allowed Woodstock on his farm).
I'm a LD and can rewire these fixtures so we can use them. Your donation would be greatly appericated.
Thanks, Jimmi
Again, these will be restored and utilized for a grassroots organization (Friends of Yasgurs Road) and implemented on Max Yasgur's farm for our annual celebrations down at Max Yasgur's home (the man who allowed Woodstock on his farm).
I'm a LD and can rewire these fixtures so we can use them. Your donation would be greatly appericated.
Thanks, Jimmi
While I frequently get for one reason or another, chain hoist end caps in my recycling bin, and once in a while an aluminum rock and roll can that clearly got run over by something, it's very rare I would get rid of gear. Above with giving it away, proper storage for a later day for parts etc.
A PAR 64 fixture with a bit of work can get a safety screen... heck I even stock them or it's sufficiently within concept with some 1/2" hardware cloth to make them. This if not an antique fixture that can be sold on E-Bay as per an antique which would raise money for the theater. I have two Strand #8736 or 523M fixtures in my museum and they don't have safety screens. These on the other hand is in part PAR can history and worth being kept origional, but never again used for a production as more than a prop at nominal voltatage to them. On the other hand, where I work, used to make their own PAR cans'. Later upgrade to them was a safety screen added. Not what I would do but it was a safety screen and was sufficient. Long since sold off or gave away these fixtures.
Shotty wiring is easy to fix. While just graduated, with some experience and training more so - re-wiring isn't a problem and fairly cheaper to do than buying a new fixture. If doing an assessment, often it is better to bank on the future in putting stuff away for a later day what cannot be fixed now properly but would be worth saving.
On the plethra of Lekos you seem to have, than these 360Q fixtures will never again be used? Can't imaine a time when designing shows that I have not found it useful to have a back pocket of Lekos' available. At least fix them up and sort of perminant loan them out to another local theater with the concept of if needed, you might be able to get them back for use if available. Depends on the lens train type also - if 4.5x6... clean them up and put them away, if 6x9, save them or at least get that above concept of long term loan done. Of the other lens trains, A little less useful at times but all are. This plus if you have extra parts, you no doubt have extra lens trains and tubes that can become the more useful versions up to 6x12. Hang onto the 6x22 lens trains if you have them, at least two of them also. At times from FOH, another couple of fixtures can be really useful. The 6x16 lens train is perhaps least needed.
If more charged with getting rid of them by way of cash... fix them up some but don't put a huge amount of effort into it beyond being safe. Get them to the smallest lens size you can, than CB-Market place or E-Bay them amongst other places to sell them off of. You will get more sales from a smaller 360Q lens train, than a larger one. Len and I as with others also have 360Q parts about, contact off line in making them more valuable for resale by way of lens trains and snouts if they are not aleady premium. If you have a 4.5Q6 contact no doubt either of us amongst others or even just selling the lens train, - that's a valuable lens train even if lens train only.
On the 65Q's... What you have say over 2/3 Fresnels to Leko's percentage? I know of a community theater that has over that percentage - I personally re-wired all their fixtures. They are lazy on the other hand in not selling off the surplus realistically they will never need. I note some past bought S-4 PAR fixtures, is this the reason the Fresnels are no longer valuable to you? A PAR 64 will never replace a Fresnel - even the PAR Nel is it's own creation, and given that, you would do a huge disservice to that theater in getting rid of any Fresnels unless totally overstocked in them.
Overall on fixing the Leko's with stuck bolts etc., if you pay to send them to me in an off-line way, and pay return shipping; I'll fix it for you - no charge. Even service call it up some as long as it don't take parts. At that point as per Controlbooth guidelines... it's taken off this forum in doing work and getting parts. Same I'm sure with many others that can do a 360Q, 65Q or PAR can service call. Off line to any of us. Len and I for instance on another topic are discussing doing clutch cam's to clutch break 360Q fixtures. That level of experience many of us have gained over the years - many years.
Remember a similar job I had just out of college to your's. While it wasn't my job to figure out what to save verses dissemble and organize into a parts storage cabinet, more it was to re-wire up a bunch of the fixtures in use. We didn't have new fixtures coming in. Did my best and to the best of my knowledge and education in doing so.
Ran out of heat wire but (and this is like in 1993) I found an entire spool of heat wire somewhere back stage. Proceded to re-wire up a bunch of fixtures with "fresh" asbestos heat wire and with non-heat rated crimp splices in not knowing any better. A caution on what you are paid to be doing.... what you don't know now might harm the future of that theater in a similar way.
Doubt that you would be replacing old asbestos for new asbestos fixture wiring, and using low temperature if even isulated terminals for re-wiring inside fixtures. The basics I understood but was totally without a clue yet in what I was doing also. Asbestos.. what's that... just a different insulation type never heard of back in like 93' fesh out of college in also taking no protection. In stock, used it.
In other words, your ability to choose what to save verses toss out or sell off and or give away is problematic. Not by way of your interests in doing the best you can, but more in that you are making choices that will effect the theater which will effect this theater ten years from now that ten years from now what you might do in making these changes, could be problematic.
My local High School had a near to it Community College. The two never reall got along until after I got to it and formed a link between the two. (The community college was the one I screwed up the gear to - this following state college in further education.) Community college, some state college or someone that's TD at a lighting company or at least for a community theatre sould be brought in to help you before you make similar mistakes I made in the past.
Fresh out of college, I didn't know high temperature ring terminals verses vinyl insulated ones. 90c, 150c, 200c or 250c wire from another, asbestos verses Teflon. There is stuff that takes time to digest and learn. In your case, if trashing or giving away the 65Q fixtures as up for option..., that's something telling in requiring help from someone with more experience with both design and tech to save these fixtures especially from the chopping block. Do your job to the best but also given what you decide is perhaps a bit more than your experience is able to offer opinion for, get help in such desciscions.
A PAR 64 fixture with a bit of work can get a safety screen... heck I even stock them or it's sufficiently within concept with some 1/2" hardware cloth to make them. This if not an antique fixture that can be sold on E-Bay as per an antique which would raise money for the theater. I have two Strand #8736 or 523M fixtures in my museum and they don't have safety screens. These on the other hand is in part PAR can history and worth being kept origional, but never again used for a production as more than a prop at nominal voltatage to them. On the other hand, where I work, used to make their own PAR cans'. Later upgrade to them was a safety screen added. Not what I would do but it was a safety screen and was sufficient. Long since sold off or gave away these fixtures.
Shotty wiring is easy to fix. While just graduated, with some experience and training more so - re-wiring isn't a problem and fairly cheaper to do than buying a new fixture. If doing an assessment, often it is better to bank on the future in putting stuff away for a later day what cannot be fixed now properly but would be worth saving.
On the plethra of Lekos you seem to have, than these 360Q fixtures will never again be used? Can't imaine a time when designing shows that I have not found it useful to have a back pocket of Lekos' available. At least fix them up and sort of perminant loan them out to another local theater with the concept of if needed, you might be able to get them back for use if available. Depends on the lens train type also - if 4.5x6... clean them up and put them away, if 6x9, save them or at least get that above concept of long term loan done. Of the other lens trains, A little less useful at times but all are. This plus if you have extra parts, you no doubt have extra lens trains and tubes that can become the more useful versions up to 6x12. Hang onto the 6x22 lens trains if you have them, at least two of them also. At times from FOH, another couple of fixtures can be really useful. The 6x16 lens train is perhaps least needed.
If more charged with getting rid of them by way of cash... fix them up some but don't put a huge amount of effort into it beyond being safe. Get them to the smallest lens size you can, than CB-Market place or E-Bay them amongst other places to sell them off of. You will get more sales from a smaller 360Q lens train, than a larger one. Len and I as with others also have 360Q parts about, contact off line in making them more valuable for resale by way of lens trains and snouts if they are not aleady premium. If you have a 4.5Q6 contact no doubt either of us amongst others or even just selling the lens train, - that's a valuable lens train even if lens train only.
On the 65Q's... What you have say over 2/3 Fresnels to Leko's percentage? I know of a community theater that has over that percentage - I personally re-wired all their fixtures. They are lazy on the other hand in not selling off the surplus realistically they will never need. I note some past bought S-4 PAR fixtures, is this the reason the Fresnels are no longer valuable to you? A PAR 64 will never replace a Fresnel - even the PAR Nel is it's own creation, and given that, you would do a huge disservice to that theater in getting rid of any Fresnels unless totally overstocked in them.
Overall on fixing the Leko's with stuck bolts etc., if you pay to send them to me in an off-line way, and pay return shipping; I'll fix it for you - no charge. Even service call it up some as long as it don't take parts. At that point as per Controlbooth guidelines... it's taken off this forum in doing work and getting parts. Same I'm sure with many others that can do a 360Q, 65Q or PAR can service call. Off line to any of us. Len and I for instance on another topic are discussing doing clutch cam's to clutch break 360Q fixtures. That level of experience many of us have gained over the years - many years.
Remember a similar job I had just out of college to your's. While it wasn't my job to figure out what to save verses dissemble and organize into a parts storage cabinet, more it was to re-wire up a bunch of the fixtures in use. We didn't have new fixtures coming in. Did my best and to the best of my knowledge and education in doing so.
Ran out of heat wire but (and this is like in 1993) I found an entire spool of heat wire somewhere back stage. Proceded to re-wire up a bunch of fixtures with "fresh" asbestos heat wire and with non-heat rated crimp splices in not knowing any better. A caution on what you are paid to be doing.... what you don't know now might harm the future of that theater in a similar way.
Doubt that you would be replacing old asbestos for new asbestos fixture wiring, and using low temperature if even isulated terminals for re-wiring inside fixtures. The basics I understood but was totally without a clue yet in what I was doing also. Asbestos.. what's that... just a different insulation type never heard of back in like 93' fesh out of college in also taking no protection. In stock, used it.
In other words, your ability to choose what to save verses toss out or sell off and or give away is problematic. Not by way of your interests in doing the best you can, but more in that you are making choices that will effect the theater which will effect this theater ten years from now that ten years from now what you might do in making these changes, could be problematic.
My local High School had a near to it Community College. The two never reall got along until after I got to it and formed a link between the two. (The community college was the one I screwed up the gear to - this following state college in further education.) Community college, some state college or someone that's TD at a lighting company or at least for a community theatre sould be brought in to help you before you make similar mistakes I made in the past.
Fresh out of college, I didn't know high temperature ring terminals verses vinyl insulated ones. 90c, 150c, 200c or 250c wire from another, asbestos verses Teflon. There is stuff that takes time to digest and learn. In your case, if trashing or giving away the 65Q fixtures as up for option..., that's something telling in requiring help from someone with more experience with both design and tech to save these fixtures especially from the chopping block. Do your job to the best but also given what you decide is perhaps a bit more than your experience is able to offer opinion for, get help in such desciscions.
I know what your saying makes sense gaftr, but when you have nothing...
These guys sound like they would need abit of work, nothing that can't be fixed, just some new cables, sockets, chicken wire, and shutter cleanings.
Wonder what the lot would cost to ship cross country? $100? $125? Couldn't be that much for what Jinglish is getting rid of. Would cost much more through Solaris, and Woodstock would make a nice resting place for these babies,
millamber
Active Member
Consider a 360q 6x9 weighs 14 pounds and a 6x12 weighs 15 pounds. Not counting the parcans and the fresnels, that alone would be in the neighborhood of 150 pounds (10 fixtures x 15 lbs). I just checked my UPS software and to ship ground 150 lbs to NY from Atlanta is $614.00. And I am on the east coast, so I couldn't imagine what it would be from Oregon.
To the OP, you could recycle the metal, or donate the fixtures to a worthwhile local theatre or keep them in your garage to fix up and use/sell. Donation helps the industry, recycling helps the planet, and keeping them helps your pocket. That is, providing the school is actually transfering ownership to you. Nothing like selling off someone else's gear without permission to get one in a whole heap of trouble.
To the OP, you could recycle the metal, or donate the fixtures to a worthwhile local theatre or keep them in your garage to fix up and use/sell. Donation helps the industry, recycling helps the planet, and keeping them helps your pocket. That is, providing the school is actually transfering ownership to you. Nothing like selling off someone else's gear without permission to get one in a whole heap of trouble.
Stop there. You just stated you are doing this for the High School. Unless this is a private school. The instruments, regardless of age, are government property and have to go through county surplus. This is how you and the school's staff prevent from potentially getting into legal issues. There are strange and convoluted rules regarding the disposal of county/state/federal properties.
Segregate the material between "Want to Keep" & "No Desire to Keep". Make a suggestion to the School Staff sponsor and allow them to make the decision. This is to protect you. This transfers the liability from you to the responsible party.
I am all for sharing the love and have been a party to it myself, but I don't want you to get into legal trouble with the county.
Sony
Active Member
Actually I do believe that a public High School is allowed to Donate equipment to other non-profits and avoid the red tape, but yes, just throwing them out in the trash could get someone in trouble with the school district.
Oh, I have no intention of ridding our inventory of Fresnels. We're replacing some of the Altmans with S4 PARs because they're great little fixtures, but we'll keep a good deal around; it's just that we already had a few that were broken lying around in our lighting closet, we have more working fixtures than we need anyway. If we truly replace them, we'll probably do so with Strand Fresnels.[/quote]
Our theater is pretty small, and we almost never use more than a dozen ellipsoidals during a show. At the moment, I have six S4's and seven 360Q's in stock that are in GREAT shape (some of them had one or two rusted or damaged parts that we easily replaced with components from fixtures that weren't so good overall), and we should be getting at least two or three more S4's before the fall show.
Thanks for all the advice, ship. It looks like the ETC fixtures are going to replace the Q's within a few years, though; the girls I trained to take over for me love them, the administration likes the lessened liability with fixtures that aren't as likely to burn lighting techs, and everybody from the actors to the custodians like how much cooler the theater is with S4's running instead of the Altmans.
Now, I don't have any specific instructions for getting rid of them; that matter is largely my decision, but I have to run any possible donations past my boss. There are a couple of community theaters around here that could possibly use the spare parts, so I'll look into that. It's a Catholic high school, so if any of the local parish elemenary schools were looking for lighting gear, we could donate some gear, but I'd naturally only give them something that'd work fine out of the box, so mainly excess Fresnels if I end up with any now and ellipsoidals within the next year or two as we switch over. Jmissall: I could run your request past my boss, and she might go for it. You would have to cover shipping, of course, but the PAR64's should be pretty cheap to ship without lamps since they're basically aluminum tubes. (I realized recently that we have one more hanging in FOH that we used as a house light for several years, so it should be serviceable.) As for the ellipsoidals, some of them have had numerous parts removed and put on various fixtures, so they're missing anything from C-clamps to reflectors, but I only needed so many spares that I still have some with only minor problems (like warped shutter curtains and a single stuck bolt) in the junk pile. Oh, and they're all 6x9 and 6x12.
No legal worries--it's a Catholic high school.
Oops.. toally sorry on doing that and my shortfalls in better leaning names as per people. Also invited you to come visit the new shop addition I think in the past. While the offer is open, I suspect your commute time would be a bit longer.
Sorry, and noted now the diffrence in name. Just call me Shotty and I'll answer for it. Apologize for the mistake on my part. Len= guy that will have helped me with my wedding had I not eloped... Les - Texan that's cool in other ways than being from that country. Noted now, and won't forget. Thanks in as I am an Idiot. Stupid impersonal mistake about the person behind name in now remembering.
W
Sorry, and noted now the diffrence in name. Just call me Shotty and I'll answer for it. Apologize for the mistake on my part. Len= guy that will have helped me with my wedding had I not eloped... Les - Texan that's cool in other ways than being from that country
. Noted now, and won't forget. Thanks in as I am an Idiot. Stupid impersonal mistake about the person behind name in now remembering.W
Private school makes it MUCH easier! As long as the powers that be are cool =)
Les
Well-Known Member
Oops.. toally sorry on doing that and my shortfalls in better leaning names as per people. Also invited you to come visit the new shop addition I think in the past. While the offer is open, I suspect your commute time would be a bit longer.
Sorry, and noted now the diffrence in name. Just call me Shotty and I'll answer for it. Apologize for the mistake on my part. Len= guy that will have helped me with my wedding had I not eloped... Les - Texan that's cool in other ways than being from that country
W
Hah, it's ok ship. Len and Les are pretty close in spelling. I'd still like to get up that way some time!
You're about the last person on this board I'd call an idiot.
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You have not yet met my Wife while at home.. at work I irritate her in supervising her department, at home... yea, a useful idiot. Spare bedroom available for a visit, though would have to replace work out gear with blow up mattress in place to stay. On the other hand, wood enjoy the visit and we even have a Noodles' and Company coming in civilization of these farm fields I curse the backwoods of.
On the fixtures, Glad to see more progress in them and or due attention to not recycling them but giving them away as warranted. Also that stock you note in reserve that seems very proper and dilligance to my concerns for the future. Good work done you seemingly are doing, though I would hope you make complete and safe before you give away gear to other's less advanced in getting it.
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