HELP!! Lighting schedule for Dance production

[Kevysworld]

Hi guys, I would love to have somebody with experience tell me what is a fair lighting schedule to design the lighting for a professional dance Production. Some people are telling me it should be done in 2 - 3 days and some much longer. The show has 16 scenes with minimum 10 cues per scene AND finding this out is included in the time frame of first time entering the theater to opening night. Please help to enlighten us.....

Many many thanks!

 

[StNic54]

How many lights are in the show? How many moving lights? Do you anticipate any major changes to the lighting rig during rehearsals, and does this timeframe include hanging and focusing lights? How much crew do you have? Have you used the console previously? There are a lot of variables to consider. Could be a half a day to program a board for a small show, or it could be a week to hang, focus, design, and rehearse a large show. I'm sure others will weigh in after they have their morning joe...

 

[BenTev28]

Hi guys, I would love to have somebody with experience tell me what is a fair lighting schedule to design the lighting for a professional dance Production. Some people are telling me it should be done in 2 - 3 days and some much longer. The show has 16 scenes with minimum 10 cues per scene AND finding this out is included in the time frame of first time entering the theater to opening night. Please help to enlighten us.....

Many many thanks!

Good questions from StNic. For me, the biggest question is whether the show is being designed with a rep plot, and how large and complex that plot is. If you are talking about writing 160 looks (16 scenes, 10 cues each) with an existing rep plot of around 100 lights then you won't need much tech time. One or two days in the venue with full production staff should be fine to actually write it. Ideally you will need to do the designing part in advance, which means you will need to attend rehearsals and meet with the choreographers and then write out some kind of plan for yourself - I wouldn't want to schedule that process over less than a week. So at the simplest I would say 7-10 days.

If, on the other hand, you are doing any alterations to the plot, the required time will start to go up quickly. If you are looking at changing color and maybe hanging some specials to supplement a rep plot I would want to schedule one day with crew to make the alterations prior to a technical rehearsal. If you are hanging a plot from the ground up it will depend on the size of the plot and the layout of the venue, which are big "X" factors. For a plot of around 100 lights in a venue with a fixed grid and distributed power I would want two days of hang and focus with a crew of 5-8 electricians. If the venue has battens the time goes down, if the plot is larger or includes power or data distribution or other intangibles the time and personnel requirements go up. For a mid-size show (100-150 lights, maybe some moving lights, assuming a fixed lighting grid and house dimming and control) I would want a minimum of two weeks to attend rehearsals and design the plot, minimum three days to hang and focus with a crew of 5-8 and minimum 3 days of technical rehearsals/dress rehearsals. I would consider that a tight schedule.

 

[Kevysworld]

Hey guys thank you so much for your input! Here are the variables: 1. There is only 1 lighting Tech. 2. There are 145 conventional lights hung in the theater already but must hang 22 side lights (its a dance show). 3. There are 160 looks (16 Scenes, 10 cues each). 4. All light must be positioned and focused. 5. I am familiar with the console but only use it twice per year max.

 

[StNic54]

Honestly, and this is just me, whatever time you can get (especially not knowing the console as well) will be golden. 22 sidelights can be set relatively quickly (2-3 hours max with 2 people, so call it 5), and focusing should be 1 minute per fixture from a catwalk, and can vary depending on ladders, lifts, etc, so for 145 fixtures, absolute minimum 2.5 hours focus, but skew that to your advantage and call it a day (especially with only one tech - 2 days would be fair). By using groups and submasters you can speed your programming time along, but just remember that you'll need to build cues and work with timing, so you might need to use a full day or two with a dark theatre. If you know you can fly on a board, then plan for less, just don't get yourself into a bind or an all nighter by underestimating the time you'll need. Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork - it won't hurt to draw out your cues initially, applying channel/group numbers to the look you desire, and even writing out values to input later. Make a cheat sheet with all your groups on stage and what they do. Record a blackout cue (cue 999) and rerecord that continuously as you program and it will save time (rather than putting everything at 0, just hit go and then record cue #xx while in 999). Ultimately, if your console has a software component (OLE) that you can use now to make your cues, then do so and transfer the cues to the console, and tweak onsite.

 

[derekleffew]

The show has 16 scenes with minimum 10 cues per scene ...

Says who? Some of my best work has been two cues: Lights Up at the beginning, and Lights Down at the end. See below.

...Ideally you will need to do the designing part in advance, which means you will need to attend rehearsals and meet with the choreographers and then write out some kind of plan for yourself - I wouldn't want to schedule that process over less than a week. So at the simplest I would say 7-10 days. ...

This. There's a difference between "designing lighting" and "lighting the dance(s)." In this case, I would say you are doing the latter. Nothing wrong with that; but...

Believe or or not, The Lighting Designer is supposed to THINK about his/her work (and many/most/all good designers do) before entering the theatre. Reading the script (reading/listening to the score), doing historical research/dramaturgy, meeting with the director (choreographer), collaborating with other members of the design team, creating a Lighting Concept/Lighting Statement--all more important than where the Leko s are hung, focused, in what color, and at what intensity. Okay, perhaps not MORE important, but since the former dictates/determines the latter, at least equally important. WHY are the SR shin-kickers R54? "Because to me, it invokes the lighting on a beach in the south of France in the winter and this dance tells the story of one man's sense of isolation from his compatriots." Rather than: "Because I was told dance must have low sidelight and I though that color looked pretty in the swatchbook."

Either approach may be situationally valid, and will get the stage lit by opening night.

Now some clichés/unsolicited advice for the typical Madam Fanny's Academy of Dance and Performing Arts Annual Recital Gala Affair:

• Nothing but white or No Color Pink frontlight for the babies (ages 0-5). The parents taking video on their iPhones for Auntie Em and Uncle Henry want to SEE the faces of their little cretins making their stage debut.
• The older and better the students, the more "advanced" the lighting can be. Less frontlight, more side/backlight.
• Blue for boys, pink for girls.
• Use dark colors for slow songs and bright colors for fast ones.
• One can never have too much Congo Blue.
• Use L201 instead of open white and people will think you know what you're doing.
• When in doubt, choose lavender--Special Lavender, Dark Lavender, Surprise Pink, Lilac, use as many as often as you can.
• If/when followspots are used, fuzz the heck out of the beam.
• A good Stage Manager is more than worth her weight in gold.
• Never make anyone wait while you change gels on the sidelight booms. Don't change colors at all if a ladder is required.
• Remind yourself you're not lighting (probably) the American Ballet Theatre or the Joffrey Ballet.
• Always make the costumes look as good as possible. They paid good money for those chartreuse unitards that aren't quite the same color as they looked in the Baum's catalog. It's your job to make them look the same as what they were expecting. It's fine if you have to defy the laws of physics to do it. Don't argue, just do it.
• Don't let the cyc get away from you. That 20'high by 40'wide blank canvas full of color can easily pull all the focus (upstage is first a verb, then a noun or adjective) from the performers, especially if using LEDs. Believe it or not, the SHOW is not about the cyclorama, nor about your lighting. Distracting from the dance seldom gets you anywhere.
• Adding more and faster chases or ballyhoos does not (usually) make the dance more interesting or exciting.
• If the dance or dancers suck, there's nothing lighting can do to make it better, short of "release the programmer, clear all faders, GM down, worklights on" and going home.

 

[Kevysworld]

I really appreciate your input Derek, but I was looking for a timeline with how long the process should take from beginning through tech rehearsals into opening night. Totally appreciate the info though!!

 

[xander]

The answer is, there is no answer. Time, money, quality. Pick two and then you have your schedule. I've never had a schedule dictated by what was "needed." You get your schedule and then determine what is possible based on that.

-Tim

 

[derekleffew]

... but I was looking for a timeline with how long the process should take from beginning through tech rehearsals into opening night. ...

Too many unknowns to answer that. Is this a ballet school's recital or a professional production? Grog12 and MNBallet (both with professional companies) can give you a two-three week, or likely longer, timeline. MrsFooter and SteveB (lighting directors for road house es) will tell you that often the dance company will arrive at their theatre at noon or later for an 8pm performance.

So the timeline ranges anywhere from three weeks to eight hours. Hopefully they will elaborate.

-----

Interviewer to two show composers, "Which comes first, the music or the lyrics?"
Answered by both, simultaneously, "The contract!"

 

[techieman33]

Too many unknowns to answer that. Is this a ballet school's recital or a professional production? Grog12 and MNBallet (both with professional companies) can give you a two-three week, or likely longer, timeline. MrsFooter and SteveB (lighting directors for road house es) will tell you that often the dance company will arrive at their theatre at noon or later for an 8pm performance.

So the timeline ranges anywhere from three weeks to eight hours. Hopefully they will elaborate.

8 hours could even be a lot, I've spent less than 2 hours lighting a recital because that was all the client was willing to pay for, and we've had clients pay to sit in the theater for a week to just sit at the desk and program.

 

[Axislights]

Good questions from StNic. For me, the biggest question is whether the show is being designed with a rep plot, and how large and complex that plot is. If you are talking about writing 160 looks (16 scenes, 10 cues each) with an existing rep plot of around 100 lights then you won't need much tech time. One or two days in the venue with full production staff should be fine to actually write it. Ideally you will need to do the designing part in advance, which means you will need to attend rehearsals and meet with the choreographers and then write out some kind of plan for yourself - I wouldn't want to schedule that process over less than a week. So at the simplest I would say 7-10 days.

If, on the other hand, you are doing any alterations to the plot, the required time will start to go up quickly. If you are looking at changing color and maybe hanging some specials to supplement a rep plot I would want to schedule one day with crew to make the alterations prior to a technical rehearsal. If you are hanging a plot from the ground up it will depend on the size of the plot and the layout of the venue, which are big "X" factors. For a plot of around 100 lights in a venue with a fixed grid and distributed power I would want two days of hang and focus with a crew of 5-8 electricians. If the venue has battens the time goes down, if the plot is larger or includes power or data distribution or other intangibles the time and personnel requirements go up. For a mid-size show (100-150 lights, maybe some moving lights, assuming a fixed lighting grid and house dimming and control) I would want a minimum of two weeks to attend rehearsals and design the plot, minimum three days to hang and focus with a crew of 5-8 and minimum 3 days of technical rehearsals/dress rehearsals. I would consider that a tight schedule.

Wow, I guess I haven't worked in theatre for a while. Just the other day in Vegas I put up a show with 300 Conventionals and movers in an empty ballroom with truss, motors, screens, and drape with 2 riggers and 6 electrics and we were fully focused in 10 hours with a 1/2 lunch....

 

[Grog12]

Wow, I guess I haven't worked in theatre for a while. Just the other day in Vegas I put up a show with 300 Conventionals and movers in an empty ballroom with truss, motors, screens, and drape with 2 riggers and 6 electrics and we were fully focused in 10 hours with a 1/2 lunch....

Remember the OP has said that its 1 crew memeber only for lighting.

Assuming its a rep plot that fits your standards and with minimal changes can be up and running for you....

Figure 3 hours for hang/focus and about 4-6 for cueing depending on how competent your programer is and how intricate the ques are.

 

[BenTev28]

Wow, I guess I haven't worked in theatre for a while. Just the other day in Vegas I put up a show with 300 Conventionals and movers in an empty ballroom with truss, motors, screens, and drape with 2 riggers and 6 electrics and we were fully focused in 10 hours with a 1/2 lunch....

Yup.... I've done those ones as well. I would bet, though, that this was a put in of a touring show, in which case you would have a touring Lighting Director and a touring Technical Director who know their show backwards, forwards upside and under and can get it installed in the absolute most efficient way without even thinking too hard about it. You also likely got the rider a couple months in advance, so have already made a plan as the house crew about how to go about it and exactly what you need. You know your own house at least as well as the tour knows their own show, and every person on both sides is a seasoned, almost certainly union professional. I would bet dollars to donuts that a bunch of those units were on pre-hung truss and everything came off the truck labelled and color coded and in the right order for an efficient load in.

Based on the location (NYC) and occupation (Volunteer) of the OP, I gave estimates assuming that this show is going to be less extensively practiced than a big touring production. It also sounds like a one off, which means time needs to be scheduled not only for execution but for planning, building and editing the show along the way.

 

[Axislights]

Yup.... I've done those ones as well. I would bet, though, that this was a put in of a touring show, in which case you would have a touring Lighting Director and a touring Technical Director who know their show backwards, forwards upside and under and can get it installed in the absolute most efficient way without even thinking too hard about it. You also likely got the rider a couple months in advance, so have already made a plan as the house crew about how to go about it and exactly what you need. You know your own house at least as well as the tour knows their own show, and every person on both sides is a seasoned, almost certainly union professional. I would bet dollars to donuts that a bunch of those units were on pre-hung truss and everything came off the truck labelled and color coded and in the right order for an efficient load in.

Based on the location (NYC) and occupation (Volunteer) of the OP, I gave estimates assuming that this show is going to be less extensively practiced than a big touring production. It also sounds like a one off, which means time needs to be scheduled not only for execution but for planning, building and editing the show along the way.

Wrong on all counts, it was a corperate show one off in a ballroom I'd never been in. I hadn't seen the plot until I got there at 7am and none of the equipment was addressed or cabled. The the truss was 12" box truss. I was just me, the console, 2 couple of Sharpies and 3 rolls of gaff tape. And a dry hire crew from the local. all open calls. The LD was even on a plane so I couldn't call him to ask any questions till the rig was already up. Not that I would have needed to really except for the lekos he had for back light wouldn't have fit anyway, just switched em to spare pars. Thats how we roll in corperate land. When I'm on tour then I certainly do all that stuff....

 

[SteveB]

There are no hard and fast rules due to so many variables, including potential requirement to focus, how many if any crew, size of the lighting rig, any other technical "stuff" that needs to get dealt with - I.E. laying a dance floor, are the soft goods in place, etc....

Is the company going to need a 1 hr class each day ?, is there going to be a spacing rehearsal or do the dancers use the space on a regular basis and know the boundaries ?.

I have seen situations where the LD and or SM is in a day early to get the space set, lights focused, etc... and that can be anywhere from a 4 to 12 or 16 hr call, dependent on the technical state of the theater.

Then a next day morning 2-4 hr session of cuing, with the choreographer and the LD (plus whatever crew required). Then an afternoon spacing run thru with lighting, so the dancers can space as well as find specials, so 2-3 hrs. etc... Then an easy full run thru, with the dancers not performing all-out if they are performing that night. The full run thru might only last the length of a 20 minute or 1/2 hr. piece and hopefully not need to go 2 hours if it's Swan Lake or some such, 'cause you won't have the time. So possibly a cue to cue and hope the dancers know the piece. Then hope for the best at 8PM.

Or we get a Flamenco tour, with the LD in at 8 or 10, a 2-3 hr focus then deals with sound and banf, he/she hands me a USB with cues on it, we load and check, the company arrives at 1 and does a class/warm-up, then does a spacing with lights and it's dinner time. The company does this everyday so it's quick and dirty.

 

[Footer]

Friday Mrs. Footer and I are taking a ballet down to the city that we mounted originally in our space. Its a 9am in. 9am-1pm is hang drops, load cues, check looks. 2pm-6pm is a full run w/ class. 8pm go... and all of that is with a local 1 crew so things don't happen instantly. When we teched the show last week, it was a 4 hour focus that included hanging drops, cue in over a rehearsal, one 5 hour tech, show. Even at that, we did not see one of our principles until the curtain went up with an audience in the house.

If you come in with your stuff together, things can go quick. If you come in with a nothing but a vague idea, your screwed.

In college our standard dance process was 5 days. With a 250 unit plot, 1st day was hang/focus/floor. 2nd day was programming and act 1 tech. 3rd day was programming and act 2 tech. 4th day was final dress. 5th day was opening. It worked... and that was with all student designers.

It all just really depends what you are after... and how much prep work you are doing. Always remember that time outside of the space is free, time in the space is money. The more prep you can do on the outside will save you loads on the inside. If you walk in with a show disk w/ your patch/groups/subs/cue structure in, a detailed cue sheet with good descriptions of what you are after, and a good magic sheet you are set.

 

[wiscolighting]

Hard to say I know that as much as most of us wish we had all tue time in the world we all know we rarely get it. It really depebds on the show, rig even what people you are working with and not just performers but also techs, I know I can move much faster on a focus for example if I have a good crew... because especially in load in, focus, rehearsal, etc. a good crew of say three can do the work of say a less experienced crew of five or even ten. Going by the information you gave its hard to say as a lot of people have said above it depends go with what from past experience and the circumstances of the show make you think... sounds like about a weeks worth of work not that it could be done in less and I am not saying a week with 12 hour calls probably 6-8 hours a day but it could allways be condensed in to a few days of 16-18 hours and a lot of caffeine.

 

[Sayen]

What are you looking for in the answer? Is this an argument you're having (you mentioned a "fair" schedule)?

What type of venue/number of lights/crew training? Previous expectations for the dance group?

If nothing else, maybe someone can give you an idea of what amount of time they would use for a similar show with some details.

 

[Aman121]

I would say that your over thinking this. I would just follow derecks advice, and maybe even drop cues and just fly by the subs. I do this all the time for dance and while I'm definitly not a pro I do usually get hired back next year. If the dance group isint some world class competitive type thing, they'll most likely be happy with whatever you give them. Do a quick and dirty hang and just get a warm/cool wash with a few cyc colors. Red an blue can go far for you. Make the kiddies look good for mama and go home. BUT WAIT! If this really is a big deal, and you are being paid a good amount to go totally pro, then disregard everything I've said and do what you were going to in the first place. Itwill take a while, especially if your new.
My method only works for me because usually they hand me 2 twentys and say curtain in 3 hours, have fun.

 

[JChenault]

Amplifying Derek's comments a bit. You have as much time as you have. You have as many resources as you have. Your job as a designer is to to the most that you are able to with the resources you have.

The show has 16 scenes with minimum 10 cues per scene

Where is this number coming from? If you have a rep plot and 30 minutes you can't give them 10 cues per show It just can't be done.

If you have a choreographer who will not talk with you about what the dance is about, and you cannot see rehearsals, and you have 12 hours - you just have to do the best you can do.

I'm reminded of a photograph of Ken Billington focusing lights for a festival for scenery that was not there yet. He was standing on a ladder, holding up his hands, and having the techs focus to his hands. Was this a perfect focus? I am certain it was not. Was it the best that could be done under the circumstances he was in - I am sure it was.

I think we need to strive for the absolute best we can do - under the constraints we are working under. Not to have a fixed idea as to what must be achieved.