Help needed identifying work light.

[busparking]

Hello friends,

I've been lurking here for a couple months, and have already learned a lot.
I was recently hired as a high school theatre TD/facilities supervisor.
One of the first things I discovered upon starting the job is that the work lights are all burnt out.
Because of this, we are having to use the stage lights for our daily classes in the theatre (as well as for rehearsals and tech work).
I am planning to change the lamps out as soon as possible, but the school does not own a ladder or a lift tall enough to reach the fixtures.
Since I'll be renting one to replace the expired lamps in the house, I thought I'd replace these at the same time, but I have no clue what lamps are needed.
The fixtures are, most likely, from the original construction in the early 1970s (the lamps might be that old also!)
There are 15 fixtures over the stage, and I would love to upgrade to CFL, or (ideally) LED since they are not connected to the dimmers.
Any help identifying the fixture/lamp, and/or what lamps I could use to replace them would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!!

 

[Dionysus]

Hard to tell for sure from that photo, would need an angle that includes the back of the fixture really. With the lamp I can't read in info on the envelope in this image as well. I presume them to be "fat albert" (aka "G", as opposed to "A" (normal shape, "arbitrary")) incandescent lamps of some sort, with regular lamp base (possibly mogul).

There are a lot of LED replacement lamp options out there, just choose the kind that will fit your needs best. Look at:

- Size and shape of fixture (original lamp will help with this)
- Where you want the light (is directional ok, many LEDs are quite directional, however more and more are less so)
- Colour Temprature of the light you would like
- How bright you want it

Since you are most likely replacing incandescents there shouldn't be much issue.

 

[busparking]

Unfortunately, that was as close to the fixture as I could get with the available means. =0p
Here's a closeup of the writing on the envelope.

 

[FMEng]

Depending upon the height you should be able to change those lamps with a bulb snatcher, which is a long pole with a spring operated device to grip the lamp. It would be a lot cheaper than renting a lift. I am fairly sure that lamp has a mogul screw base, which is going to limit your choices. There are mogul to medium base adapters available.

 

[Les]

I am fairly sure that lamp has a mogul screw base, which is going to limit your choices. There are mogul to medium base adapters available.

Might be able to find an LED or CFL retrofit meant for high-bay metal halide fixtures. Color temp might not be ideal (they tend to be 4k and above). I bought some CFL retrofits made by Maxlite and they seem alright, but they were for a warehouse.

 

[Michael K]

Googling the name, wattage and voltage, I found this light:

They list it as

• E26 Medium Base
• 13,650 Lumens
• PS25/5 Shape
  
• 3200°K
  
• 60 (!) Hour Life

Didn't see any E36 Mogul base lamps by Sylvania, but I may just be searching the wrong teams.

CLFs are probably are probably the best thing to get short term, high wattage LEDs replacment LEDs get rather close to to the price of a full new LED fixture.

Also checked out Musson's site (our locale theater supply shop), but they don't seem to have any equivalent lamps.

 

[JD]

Is that a G type lamp or an R ? I have a bunch of R52 500 watt lamps (mogul base) that we pulled when we did our LED conversion, and they look like that when viewed from below. They had a 2000+ hour life, and probably had 100 hours on them. (About a dozen still sitting in a box in my attic.)
Anyway, I would check out a few window washers and painters for replacing them. We ended up with a window washing firm that came in and changed about 40 of them for $200 labor. (Don't need an electrician to change a light bulb.) It was a lot cheaper then renting anything!

 

[FMEng]

Mogul bases were used pretty widely for lamps around 300 Watts and above. But they seem to be getting rare as time goes along. It's impossible to guess what that lamp is. Remove a lamp for a good look before shopping.

 

[BobHealey]

I've seen up to 500W in R style medium bases too. Or it could be something really weird.

 

[tjrobb]

Current code is Medium through 300W. Mogul is 300W and up. Note that 300 can be either. Also, I am unsure when the wattage restriction took affect.

 

[busparking]

Thank you all so much for your help!
I tend to know a little bit about a lot of different things.
As a result, I am regularly, very quickly feeling out of my depth.
Fortunately, I'm also a fairly quick learner, and I've found a great place to learn more and ask questions.
I'm just trying to not blow anything up! :shock:

Speaking of which, do I need to worry about the presence (or lack) of ballasts in these fixtures?
Or is that only an issue for tube florescents in the troffers?

I'm guessing since they appear to be incandescent that there shouldn't be any ballasts (which would effect any decision to go to LED).
Additionally, my understanding of CFLs is that they don't need ballasts*, so I shouldn't need any if we go that route.

*That is to say, the ballast is self-contained in the CFL.

Thank you!!

 

[notoriousRBG]

No ballast needed, incandescent lights take straight AC 110v power from the grid. Standard household CFLs and LED replacements bulbs are designed to take straight AC 110v power as well, they just convert it internally.

 

[Les]

Speaking of which, do I need to worry about the presence (or lack) of ballasts in these fixtures?
Or is that only an issue for tube florescents in the troffers?

I'm guessing since they appear to be incandescent that there shouldn't be any ballasts (which would effect any decision to go to LED).
Additionally, my understanding of CFLs is that they don't need ballasts*, so I shouldn't need any if we go that route.

*That is to say, the ballast is self-contained in the CFL.

Thank you!!

Correct. The CFL and LED retrofits contain their own ballast circuitry, so no action is needed on your end. The main considerations you would need to take are whether you need dimming, and if you have a preferred color temp. If no dimming is needed, you can throw pretty much anything in there. If these are connected to a dimmer, even if you're not going to use that dimmer, you still need dimmable lamps, which gets expensive.

On color temp (Tungsten 3000K vs Daylight 5000K), this is mainly an issue of set painting. Many designers like to paint in the same (or very similar) wavelength that incandescent (tungsten) stage lights provide, and will design their worklight system to cater to that need. To me, personally, I find it a non-issue since you never just shoot white light at the stage anyway. There are usually various color temps and colors at play. So you'd might as well bring up the actual stage lighting when you are testing out paint colors, and maybe periodically through the process to make sure things still 'look right'. But YMMV.

Costuming can also be an issue under worklights, but I usually bring up full stage lighting for the costume parade anyway.

 

[busparking]

Well, I was finally able to get up there and pull down one of the lamps, and they are mogul bases.
Here's what I found:

Now, pretty much all of the lamps I found with mogul bases at my closest BBS required a ballast.
Should I assume that these fixtures have ballasts?
And, if so, do I need to worry about them if I use a reducer socket to put a cfl or led in there?

 

[Dionysus]

If they are Incandescent there is no way they have ballasts.
If they are not incandescent (ie mercury vapor, metal hailide, etc) they have ballasts, but the WRONG ballasts for any LED.

You will have to order-in or find a different supplier to get other lamps, or as suggested, use a mogul to medium base adapter.

Your photo does not seem to work... If you need to identify the fixture seeing the back end would help, and to identify the lamp a profile shot would help (with something for scale).
Cheers.

 

[FMEng]

No, those incandescent fixtures have no ballast. Any medium base lamp will work with an adapter. I have my doubts that any CFL or LED will put out anywhere near the light that the 500 W lamp can.

It seems to be a 500PS35/FR/MOG lamp. They are still made in 300 and 500 Watt sizes, and in 120 and 130 Volts, but the 130 is cheaper because it is more commonly used. The 130 V lamp will last a lot longer, but will put out less light and a yellowish color temperature. Running the filament at less than its rated voltage is an old trick to extend life, but with the trade offs. Yours is frosted, but the parabolic reflector was probably intended to use a clear 500PS35/CL/MOG. Clean the reflector for best results.

 

[Les]

There are plenty of self-ballasted CFL and LED lamps available for high-bay warehouse applications. If you're not picky about color temp and lack of dimming, that's the route for you.

 

[busparking]

Awesome!
We may actually get some light over the stage now!
Thank you all so much!

 

[ship]

Given you removed the lamp, that would be a photo to take of it and a better part number photo of it as it was partially obscured. Looked like #6418 but missing a didgit if a part number thus going back to what lamp it is removed, or could be part of their old coding system... would have to check a lot of notes to find that part numver.. Photo's of it to start with in easier. Did a quick check... nope not in my notes for a lamp part number in what's given.

Mogul screw lamps are not much available in CFL or LED, and 500w listed probably would not be ballasted - it will have been a filament lamp. Reserving judgement before pronouncing it to be a probably discontinued
500PS40 Osram/Sylvania #16141

Aerotech might still make a similar incandescent lamp if the elongshaped pear shape that measures 5" in dia. If Aerotec sells such a lamp, it would normally be a filament lamp worth 20,000 hours if they make this lamp version. My notes say they don't, but could provide a suitable lamp assuming that they still make a PS-35 with the same LCL as the PS-40. Part number PS-407 I would look towards as a direct replacement. Otherwise with the use of a E-39 to E-26 socket adaptor (Mog to medium Screw adaptor), and probably a E-26 to E-26 socket extender, you should be able to adapt this fixture to any modern LED or CFL medium screw lamp. Cree makes a A-21 in not checking output but probably decent in comparable to 100w. Don't think anything has the output of the 500w lamp, but that's how I would adapt for a start if not in cheaper going incandescent until I could afford a more modern worklight solution. More you wait, less in price they become and more efficient with that. CFL's more and more seem to be a dead horse as with cold cathode.

 

[Roger L. Lattin]

There are retro-fit globes for industrial hi-bay lights to take them to CFL or LED, if you want some slightly used mogul to medium screw base adapters taking up room in my garage/shop if that helps.