shiben
Well-Known Member
They say minimum wage on the website, so whatever the minimum is in nevada?
"Hiring" an Intern
- Thread starterbishopthomas
- Start date
They say minimum wage on the website, so whatever the minimum is in nevada?
I don't have any legal knowledge or experience in the hiring of interns, but here are my opinions/experiences. Take 'em or leave 'em. I have been both an intern and a supervisor of interns. In between my junior and senior years of college I interned for a small summerstock not-for-profit theater. The company consisted of two artistic directors and two administrative positions that were year round employees. For the summer they hired a TD and designers for each show. All of the labor was interns: 1 administrative, 2 actors, 2 technical. I worked from 9am to 11p with two, hour meal breaks, thirteen out of every fourteen days. I was supplied with housing and a small stipend. The stipend was maybe enough to buy food. It certainly didn't cover my gas and I lost several hundred dollars of my savings that summer. I didn't receive any credit. Needless to say, I felt used. Did I get a lot of opportunity to "learn by doing?" Yes. But there was very minimal supervision/working alongside of professionals. Interns was just a way to get cheap labor and without it this company would have absolutely no way to produce anything.
I have also been the master electrician for a summerstock that utilizes interns. In this instance the company provided room and board and a small stipend. With shelter and food covered, theoretically, you could make money with this position, but you probably couldn't have any fun. (What is summerstock for if not drinking every night?
). Anyway, we had a head for every department that was a staff member and something like 9 interns spread throughout. It was pretty close to 1:1, staff to intern ratio. At the end of the season when the last show was up and all the clean up was done, the interns were asked what workshops they wanted and we invariably had a staff member that was willing to teach it. I did some in electrics, like programming and soldering. TD usually did welding. We've had resume reviews. The point being that I feel the emphasis was really on teaching.
If they are not getting paid or receiving credit, then it's volunteering. You cannot make someone sign a contract if they are not receiving anything in return. That's my opinion.
-Tim
I have also been the master electrician for a summerstock that utilizes interns. In this instance the company provided room and board and a small stipend. With shelter and food covered, theoretically, you could make money with this position, but you probably couldn't have any fun. (What is summerstock for if not drinking every night?
). Anyway, we had a head for every department that was a staff member and something like 9 interns spread throughout. It was pretty close to 1:1, staff to intern ratio. At the end of the season when the last show was up and all the clean up was done, the interns were asked what workshops they wanted and we invariably had a staff member that was willing to teach it. I did some in electrics, like programming and soldering. TD usually did welding. We've had resume reviews. The point being that I feel the emphasis was really on teaching. If they are not getting paid or receiving credit, then it's volunteering. You cannot make someone sign a contract if they are not receiving anything in return. That's my opinion.
-Tim
I'm with you! I just want the experience!
I'm no lawyer, but my understanding of contract law is that for a contract to be binding each side must give "consideration"—meaning provide something of value to the other party. Of course if a contract is taken to court, the judge becomes the arbitrator of whether or not "consideration" has been provided in the contract.
I may be a bit biased on this as one of my past employers viewed interns as free help that could be used to do all the things they didn't want to do, leaving it to me as the intern's direct supervisor to provide the educational aspect while also performing my work. I didn't mind it solely because the interns we had were great, but it sometimes did make my job more difficult and caused several confrontations with that employer that led to their no longer using interns.
I definitely think that you are better off to go through a school or qualified third party if possible, something where there may be established guidelines and definitions for what is expected for and from all sides. I have to think it could be a real mess if either an intern or school decided at the end of the internship that it did not meet expectations and should not be considered a valid internship.
Training on the job is a part of 'real positions' in just about every professional occupation. One of the potential employers I interviewed with after graduating told me upfront that I'd probably be spending much of my time performing more menial tasks during the first 6 months or so of my tenure there as a paid professional while I learned how they worked and their processes.
Paying cash 'under the table' and thus avoiding taxes and such can come back to bite you and I've seen companies that got caught for such practices go out of business. You might might want to see about subsidizing housing or providing some per diem or something like that instead. Maybe even paying for part of the interns tuition or classes upon successful completion of an internship period. Something that can be a legitimate cost for you but is not direct income for them.
The idea of an internship is for the intern to learn the job or business and not for them to be doing menial tasks to free up your time. As stated in the references, one of the tenets of an internship is "The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the trainees, and on occasion the employer’s operations may actually be impeded;". It is easy to forget that an "advantage" or "benefit" is not limited to direct financial benefit or profit. If an intern is used to allow you to perform tasks that generate income or for which you would otherwise have to hire a professional, then you are deriving an advantage. Perhaps the simple question is what was it that while performing a routine task led you to think of an intern, was it that they could learn something valuable from performing that task and your mentoiring them on it or was it that it would benefit you in some way? Perhaps it is just how you have presented it but the focus seems to be on the work for free aspect with little discussion of the mentoring and educational aspect that is a cornerstone of an internship.
Actually, learning on the job is one of the critical components of an unpaid internship. Again, according to the references linked, two of the six 'bullet points' regarding an intern are "The training, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to what would be given in a vocational school or academic educational instruction;" and "The training is for the benefit of the trainees;". Basically, an internship is supposed to be a continuation of education outside the classroom for the benefit of the intern.
I definitely think that you are better off to go through a school or qualified third party if possible, something where there may be established guidelines and definitions for what is expected for and from all sides. I have to think it could be a real mess if either an intern or school decided at the end of the internship that it did not meet expectations and should not be considered a valid internship.
I'm with you. Even if it would be just grunt work, I'd kill for Bishop's gig.
Of course, the three of us are all on different sides of the country!
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
Thanks, guys. I hope you don't think I'm out looking for free labor. I will admit that the thought did cross my mind while cleaning cables and that the intern would be given these "menial tasks." But along with that would come fixing/creating those same cables as well. Maybe you don't learn anything by cleaning mud off cables but when you get to the end to check/repair the connectors you certainly would.
This is not to say that "menial tasks" would be the only things I would have an intern do. Of course there would be plenty of real learning opportunities as well, including going to various types of gigs. Even basic grunt work like loading a truck also has a lesson involved, in this case truck pack, how to use e-track and straps, etc. This is in addition to informal "lecture" type lessons as well. I haven't thought it all out completely, but I promise that I'm very interested to train and teach and not just get free labor out of people.
Of course. If you want to make this work without being accused of that, maybe you and an intern sit down, clean mud off of cables (2 people=twice as fast) while you lecture to him about Mccandless.
And yes, even if it is mostly menial tasks, it builds connections, teaches you something, and I know that I would be willing to put in the work to eventually move up to something bigger.
Edit: Oh, and training interns would be something interesting to add to your resume as well. Might help you get gigs as a guest at colleges or something.
Maybe if you built a history with a school of getting great responses from past interns, otherwise there are other factors that would probably be more important from the school's perspective.
A bit of a related issue is that just because someone is teaching you does not mean they are teaching you well. That's why many formal internship programs like to know about the company, people and processes involved before supporting them. I've experienced people who went through internship and other training processes only to to pick up bad habits and misunderstandings that you then have to untrain and retrain. So anyone considering an internship may want to consider that it is the quality of education, training and experience received that matters. Someone with a good internship may gain a big advantage but a poor internship can actually be a disadvantage.
