New lighting board / console / desk suggestions?

[Butch!]

I totally agree with @NickVon's rant. You would think teachers would want to stay up to date on what they teach. But that might be the rub --- many of the teachers that do plays in schools aren't teaching theater technology and don't feel they should have to learn how to use a console for the one show a year they do. I'm in a school somewhere once a week and sometimes for a week at a time and the teachers gripe about a lot of 'extra' things that the Administration is burdening them with. They have new grading software, new lockdown drills, new protocols for discipline, new policies and more thrown at them every month as they spend all of their time 'teaching to the test' so that their students score well and allow the school to keep getting funding from the government. With limited time and so many demands on them they can't do it all. There's no easy answer but in the end it's the kids that suffer.

We suggested an Element to one of our schools and the results were disappointing. The end users couldn't handle the use of a knob to switch between banks of faders. One of the school's big complaints was that people would use the console to turn the lights on after school and then leave without turning them off and they would stay on all night. We had hoped that the time functions on the Element would be universal so that it could be set to automatically power down every night, but they are tied to the show so if someone tries to create a new show they wipe out the automatic shutdown and the other macros we put in place to make it easier on everyone. All the laminated cards and cheat sheets haven't been able to solve it.

Give them 96 channel sliders and 24 subs they do great, anything less and they just don't get it. I just wish ETC still made something like that in a affordable range.

Oh and @RonHebbard I thought the Y2k glitch wiped out sundials!

 

[RonHebbard]

Oh and @RonHebbard I thought the Y2k glitch wiped out sundials.

@Butch! Only in the southern hemisphere, fortunately I'm north of Donald's walls. (Where the sun still shines on my abacus in spite of mandatory government vacations.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Wubbles121]

I know the Element can do this sort of with the knob that chooses which bank/page of scenes or subs, but it appears that the concept of turning a knob to pick is more than they can handle.

I have been known to set the knob where it's needed and then tape a small empty plastic bottle (like a pill bottle) over the knob with a do not touch sign.....I also tape soda bottle plastic caps over back buttons and the C/D fader go/back bottons on the Express series.

 

[Butch!]

We bottle cap A/B on all our Express consoles. The issue some of the schools have is that the teachers won't learn how to patch so the consoles are always patched 1 to 1. To build a cue (which they save as a sub) they try every single channel fader until they find the fixtures that they want. On a console that is a 48/96 or 72/144 that works fine. But on the Element they HAVE to turn the knob to switch between banks and they can't grasp the idea that those faders could be 1 to 40 at one time and then become 41 to 80, etc. The other thing is that on a 96 fader console they will put strips of masking tape under the faders and then label what each one does to make it easier. Can't do than on an Element as the purpose of the faders changes with each click of the knob. It's too much work for them to create laminated overlays and I don't think there's enough room for that to work. Yes they could have someone come in and set up a patch, but (and I don't do much with Eos) I don't think it can be locked so they will screw it up. If someone made an affordable console with 96 faders and 24 subs life would be good.

 

[NickVon]

I guess I question why if a Teacher doesn't want to learn the extreme basics of how to use the hardware, why they even need more then 40 faders. Why can't they just use the 20 Subs on the bottom row(on the Element 40/60, which granted i think is no longer produced.) Why can't the console, even an Express just live in subs. Why do teachers who "claim" not to know or want any deep knowledge need such granular control of an installed system. Hell In my theater I have 56 Dimmers and I still do my best to patch them all into channels 1-40 (so i don't have to change layers) and use my 41-60 submaster for building cues and scene control for quick and dirty 1-offs. I guess I question why a un-trained teacher needs more then 20 faders. And if a person is coming in who knows more and is repatching, using higher features sets, and are not restoring it to the default settings when done, that sounds like a different problem.

I find the attitude frustrating because If I could afford it, I think I'd be a professional student I love learning new crap!

 

[JohnD]

Well, I have the snark turned on but I have to wonder how these teachers who are so be-fuddled by a light console handle the sound duties. Do they have to have an old analogue console, with very simple controls. None of those complicated para-whatever tone controls, maybe just a simple bass and treble control. Forget about that cabinet full of that extra stuff, those compressors and limiters and stuff like that, too many knobs.
Another issue is that you might be surprised by what students can do, even grade school and middle school kids. There is a difference between teaching them and letting them learn. It is easy to fall into the "this is how we do things " trap(because that's the only way I have bothered to learn how).

 

[microstar]

I totally agree with @NickVon's rant. You would think teachers would want to stay up to date on what they teach. But that might be the rub --- many of the teachers that do plays in schools aren't teaching theater technology and don't feel they should have to learn how to use a console for the one show a year they do. I'm in a school somewhere once a week and sometimes for a week at a time and the teachers gripe about a lot of 'extra' things that the Administration is burdening them with. They have new grading software, new lockdown drills, new protocols for discipline, new policies and more thrown at them every month as they spend all of their time 'teaching to the test' so that their students score well and allow the school to keep getting funding from the government. With limited time and so many demands on them they can't do it all. There's no easy answer but in the end it's the kids that suffer.

We suggested an Element to one of our schools and the results were disappointing. The end users couldn't handle the use of a knob to switch between banks of faders. One of the school's big complaints was that people would use the console to turn the lights on after school and then leave without turning them off and they would stay on all night. We had hoped that the time functions on the Element would be universal so that it could be set to automatically power down every night, but they are tied to the show so if someone tries to create a new show they wipe out the automatic shutdown and the other macros we put in place to make it easier on everyone. All the laminated cards and cheat sheets haven't been able to solve it.

Give them 96 channel sliders and 24 subs they do great, anything less and they just don't get it. I just wish ETC still made something like that in a affordable range.

Oh and @RonHebbard I thought the Y2k glitch wiped out sundials!

The Dove Systems TechMaster line of consoles to the rescue! A modular system of two-scene and single-scene with "hold and fade" function that can be built in 12/24 channel increments from a 12/24 channel console to a 60/120 channel one. Multiple 24-channel submaster modules can be added as well. Dove Systems has been around for a long time and the stuff is really well made. I've had excellent support from them for some of their older units too. Good people.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Well, I have the snark turned on but I have to wonder how these teachers who are so be-fuddled by a light console handle the sound duties. Do they have to have an old analogue console, with very simple controls. None of those complicated para-whatever tone controls, maybe just a simple bass and treble control. Forget about that cabinet full of that extra stuff, those compressors and limiters and stuff like that, too many knobs.

Amen. They ask for analog or they find one setting and use that all the time or they beg admin to hire someone.

How many hs teachers take on lighting and or sound duties because they want to help the students do shows and no one else will do? God bless them. I do sometimes consider just putting in an architectural system with 10-20 presets, recording them, and taping the list to the wall. All 3 or 5 count fades. Sort of full stage-down stage-down stage center - three colors - there's 9. One blackout so they don't have to page back on the touch screen. Might be hard to come up with 10 more.

 

[sk8rsdad]

We have a 5 button wall station and so far we have managed to use 1 button... "work lights". Once upon a time we had 2 buttons programmed but got rid of "full stage wash" because it was being misused for rehearsals.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I usually write house full, house half, rehearsal, clean-up, and off presets for auditorium entry panels. Stage entry panels usually have 8 or 10 buttons - but a lot more zones like work lights left - center - right, blue (running) lights, index strips, catwalks, etc.

 

[starksk]

Pretty sure the ETC Service Dept. would disagree with you.

@derekleffew Sent out the bat signal so I'm only here to comment on support for Express. ETC can and does still support Express consoles and we still repair them. They were discontinued in 2008 and are not available for sale new, but we still plan to support them until we're unable to do so (which is likely quite some time in the future yet).

I thought Official support and repair of the Express ended over year ago. Local high school had there floppy drive die and couldn't get it repaired/replaced through etc reps. Though maybe I didn't get the whole story on that.

I'm not sure on the circumstances of the replacement of the floppy drive in your instance, but we are able to replace those as a repair. However, due to our desire to keep supporting the product, we will not normally sell you just a floppy drive on its own (this allows us to evaluate whether the issue is really the floppy drive or components that connect to the drive).

 

[NickVon]

Well thats Fantastic!

 

[Butch!]

@microstar Thanks for mentioning the Dove Techmaster line and the Sublime submaster add on. It's definitely dated and not sexy, but exactly what some teachers need to do shows. At half the cost of an Element I'm not so sure the bean counters will go for it, but I'll keep it in mind.

@JohnD, which teacher are we talking about . . .?
(A) the Chemistry teacher who tells the kids running sound that you move the slider to '0' and if the performer is too loud you tell them not be so loud.
(B) the band teacher who tells you the speakers in the auditorium don't sound right so he borrowed some from his Church band and plugged three of them into each monitor jack and aimed them at the audience.
(C) the band director for the Catholic High School with as much money as God who bought 24 wireless systems for a 16 channel board and wants to know where they plug in the extras.
(D) the English teacher who plays in a band and talked the Principal into buying a $2,000 eBay sound board with a $1,000 digital snake add on so that he can put all the wireless receivers on stage instead of next to the board and then didn't realize he had to run cables from the digital snake to the booth.
(E) the electronics shop teacher who decided to 'revamp' the audio rack and ripped out the headset power supply, the ADA listening system, and the signal processor.
(F) the teacher who asks why it sounds so bad with the adapter they bought on Amazon. After all if they make an adapter it should work.

@BillConnerFASTC You're right, for all the griping we can do about teachers who know little and still try, they are to be commended for trying. I wish there was an easier solution for them than blowing their budget hiring outside providers to do it for them.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I wish there was an easier solution for them than blowing their budget hiring outside providers to do it for them.

I was thinking the college student rather than the nearest stage lighting store. And I find the too rare auditorium manager in a hs to usually be well spent resources than product solutions. I work with one school district with 4 high schools and they all have a non-teaching auditorium manager and their theatres are much better maintained and better used than the average. Not better theatres - some sadly lacking - but used better.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Not sure, but I thought the Smartfade was obsolete? Have you considered the Colorsource 40?

I haven't put my fingers on one yet, but the people who have have mentioned numerous limitations that -- to me -- suggest the CS40 is aimed one notch lower than the SmartFades. If you have lots of LED and movers, maybe. But if your goal is training as much as working...

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Should do a pole but do you think a particular lighting console in a high school could really impact someones likelihood of pursuing a career in lighting? Personally I'm still fascinated that red and green light make amber, and that I started with auto-transformers has little to do with me being in this industry. Ultimately, it was the people and the shared passion - and not preset only versus move fade, or memory versus manual.

I just did a middle school cafetorium and maybe 30 fixtures - all ColorSource - and went with the CS40AV. If you have no preconceived notion about a console - other than purely manual and maybe 2 scene preset - it seems fine. They can use it. I don't think having an 8th grader use this is really jeopardizing his chances for a career in lighting.

 

[Les]

Should do a pole but do you think a particular lighting console in a high school could really impact someones likelihood of pursuing a career in lighting? Personally I'm still fascinated that red and green light make amber, and that I started with auto-transformers has little to do with me being in this industry. Ultimately, it was the people and the shared passion - and not preset only versus move fade, or memory versus manual.

I just did a middle school cafetorium and maybe 30 fixtures - all ColorSource - and went with the CS40AV. If you have no preconceived notion about a console - other than purely manual and maybe 2 scene preset - it seems fine. They can use it. I don't think having an 8th grader use this is really jeopardizing his chances for a career in lighting.

I agree with this. I'd even say that one of the worst things you can do for someone who is starting out is to overwhelm them with something hugely complicated. I worked with something like this in middle school:

Didn't know any better. Of course, this was pre-"me knowing how good other schools had it". But I think there are kids who will find their way to tech no matter what, and there are others who will walk away for whatever reason.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Should do a pole but do you think a particular lighting console in a high school could really impact someones likelihood of pursuing a career in lighting?

No, I don't think it will impact the likelihood.

I think some of them will be less *helpful*; different thing.

 

[c-reel]

Worth mentioning , if the strand pallete was a motherboard failure you can run the surface from another external windows computer connected to all the usbs inside. Strand support even suggests it as a fix . If harddrive its an easy swap on an older IDE harddrive and strand will give the image file to put on a thumb drive .
I had a recent client we were servicing a strand VLpalette and ultimately replaced with an element2 that fits in your budget range

 

[eadler]

The university theatre here that gets used by staff/students more often has a DFD preset 10 (I forget which specific variant) hooked up with presets for its most common uses (it's often used for dance and music) with the nominal rep plot. Works well for them and, as I understand it, other groups either bring a console or use the house Element.