PowerCON?

[STEVETERRY]

Oh, i understand. Is a powercon barrel

[

Neutrik NAC3MM-1]
listed, by NRTL ...? We just bought some of those (without my prior knowledge...)
.

This is not a listed device. It is not in the UL Certification Directory. Its VDE qualification is meaningless in North America.

From its brochure:

Attention: The powerCON is a connector without breaking capacity, i.e. the powerCON should not be connected or disconnected under load or live!

ST

 

[MisterTim]

So, a summary:

1. Powercon is only okay inside a fixture. Powercon barrels are not okay.
2. Powercon power to fixtures should be in 1m/3ft lengths, adapted to other (better connectors) or jumpered between powercon fixtures, using 12/3 SJ/SJT
3. When necessary, powercon to powercon cables can be made for longer lengths with SO without breaking code (? not sure about this, but it seems like that's what you're saying)

 

[STEVETERRY]

So, a summary:

1. Powercon is only okay inside a fixture. Powercon barrels are not okay.

Powercon barrels are not listed, but if they are OK with the AHJ, they are OK.

2. Powercon power to fixtures should be in 1m/3ft lengths, adapted to other (better connectors) or jumpered between powercon fixtures, using 12/3 SJ/SJT

Almost. Powercon cords to fixtures can be any length, as long as they are extra hard usage (Type SO). If it's after September 2013 (the effective date of the 2014 NEC), and they are hard usage (Type SJ), then they cannot be more than 1m. Powercon cords that don't attach to the fixture on one end or are longer than 1m must be made of extra hard usage cable

3. When necessary, powercon to powercon cables can be made for longer lengths with SO without breaking code (? not sure about this, but it seems like that's what you're saying)

Hmm, maybe. A powercon to powercon Type SO jumper that does not connect directly to the fixture on one end is likely a misuse of the connector. Would the AHJ object? Maybe, maybe not.


This excellent discussion proves to me that we need to work on proposals that further rationalize these issues in the 2017 NEC.

ST

 

[derekleffew]

... Powercon cords that don't attach to the fixture on one end or are longer than 1m must be made of extra hard usage cable ...

But doesn't this bring us right back to post#1 where 12/3 extra hard usage (SO) cable won't fit inside the cord grip of a 20A PowerCON? (So says MisterTim; I've never tried it. Every PowerCON extension I've ever used has been SJxx.)

Isn't this the same rationale as was used to allow the use of "listed, hard usage (junior hard service)" (SJ) cords in break-outs? 2011 NEC 520.68(A)(4).
Work on that, please, Mr. Terry.

(And use bold rather than underline for emphasis on the Internets. It's not 1980 anymore and a computer is not a typewriter. Underline indicates a hyperlink. (Most of the time.) )

 

[MisterTim]

But doesn't this bring us right back to post#1 where 12/3 extra hard usage (SO) cable won't fit inside the cord grip of a 20A PowerCON? (So says MisterTim; I've never tried it. Every PowerCON extension I've ever used has been SJxx.)

It doesn't fit by official specs on paper, that's all I know. But of course, the official spec on paper also says 14AWG, but that doesn't seem to hold any weight as we all jam 12AWG into it, so I doubt that a 0.05" difference in cable diameter is going to be a huge deal, since rubber is squishy and I'm sure the connector will technically fit over the wire.

 

[STEVETERRY]

But doesn't this bring us right back to post#1 where 12/3 extra hard usage (SO) cable won't fit inside the cord grip of a 20A PowerCON? (So says MisterTim; I've never tried it. Every PowerCON extension I've ever used has been SJxx.)

Isn't this the same rationale as was used to allow the use of "listed, hard usage (junior hard service)" (SJ) cords in break-outs? 2011 NEC 520.68(A)(4).
Work on that, please, Mr. Terry.

(And use bold rather than underline for emphasis on the Internets. It's not 1980 anymore and a computer is not a typewriter. Underline indicates a hyperlink. (Most of the time.) )

It is clear that Powercon will accept some gauges of Type SO cable.

And, stay away from my editorial font decisions, bud!


ST

 

[ship]

Assuming: the PowerCon connector is fairly obsolete at this point given the “True 1" version that has male/female and disconnect advantages advertised, isn’t this mostly a moot point in some way for jumper length overall in more concentrating on the new plug type we are going to be seeing to replace what was a bad idea that was jumped on the ship for?

Assuming: a 1 Meter jumper length, can a 14ga SJT type cable as often sold carry a 20A load as might be seen in jumping between many fixtures or in carrying the load of all fixtures in jumping between end fixture and power supply plug type? Can at 14ga but only 1 Meter SJT, it handle the load? I don’t think so but possible to safely do it?

Known: a 12/3 Soow cable won’t fit into a Powercon or True 1 connector short of modifying the plug which would be against code and bad practice anyway. Assuming a 1 meter length for SJ type cable, longer lengths unless if I understand it correctly properly supported by truss etc would work - just not for the drop or along the floor. For something else, you would need to adapt from Powercon of one or the other version, to something more normal based on the system and supply voltage.

Interested in that I just had a show specify some 10' and 15' PowerCon True 1 jumpers between fixtures. We are using 12/3 SJOOW cable and it will be truss supported in if I understand correctly, is code compliant. I am personally ok with doing so given the power in whips are 1Meter of 12/3 and it’s breakered for 20A/250V overall. My guys assembling the plugs have noted that once in a while the head of the slotted screw sheers off or screws go missing in me needing to stock that screw type for the Powercon True 1, but they get good tension on the wire on the True 1 much preferred over Powercon or CeeForm to work with.

Just got some special adaptor in from Martin today for some new light or application with Cee Form we were to convert to American type twist lock, and one that was abysmal in... really you assembled that CeeForm plug with all these stray strands of wire hanging outside the terminal? This was really bad especially if coming from a factory in strands of wire frayed out everywhere - Direct from Martin even. (I mention, open up and look at and or tension everything you get from a factory? Or don’t trust anyone’s wiring that you didn’t train.)

Powercon plugs almost a dead subject for me in that I don’t think I have ever done longer than three feet with them and always 12/3 SJ type cable. The True 1 type plug on the other hand in being requested for longer lengths for me up for discussion.

And some new blow up Eco Dome type thing from Elation I am getting news of this week we bought like 32 of which will need to be converted from CeeForm and hopefully not re-wire for a larger wire gauge, and also have to adapt to panel mount to 5-pin the data. At least no as bad as other gear in the past gotten in to modify. No, not busy at all in lots of time.

 

[MisterTim]

Assuming: the PowerCon connector is fairly obsolete at this point given the “True 1" version that has male/female and disconnect advantages advertised, isn’t this mostly a moot point in some way for jumper length overall in more concentrating on the new plug type we are going to be seeing to replace what was a bad idea that was jumped on the ship for?

I don't know about that--the True1 has a max cable diameter of 0.47", smaller than normal powercon, so it's DEFINITELY not going to fit SO. I've also never seen it in the wild, while powercon has gotten very popular, and isn't going to disappear from the fixtures we now own any time soon. I don't see how True1 makes longer cable lengths possible.

Can at 14ga but only 1 Meter SJT, it handle the [20A] load? I don’t think so but possible to safely do it?

15 or 18A max. - NEC 400.5 Not okay.

 

[MNicolai]

I wouldn't call it quits on the the powerCon yet as I have yet to see a True1 connector anywhere in the wild. The appeal of the True1 connector was that it would be rated for IP65 and has a breaking capacity.

I wouldn't mind if for a short while we debated the use-case for 12/3 SO-type cable. The applications which I routinely see powerCon connectors on are for lighting instruments and sound equipment. With pass-through options on some equipment, it's possible to put a full 20A load on a powerCon connector, but I can think of no devices where they natively pull more than the 18A rating of 14/3 SO.

It's been my impression in the way that the connector is listed, specified, and used, that PowerCon is intended as a better solution than IEC connectors on cables between power distribution and devices. It was not intended as a connector used in power distribution cabling other than when used with pass-throughs. That is a non-issue because I don't know anyone with pass-through cables in their inventory for lighting. I have some powered loudspeaker arrays with pass-throughs I use, but no cable for that would need be longer than a couple feet.

Forgive my naivete, but I don't see reasonable applications where more than 18A need be run through a powerCon connector. Nobody has been complaining about IEC C13 connectors not supporting 20A, which effectively has been the connector replaced by powerCon.

For that matter, the primary application I've seen where a longer than 1m powerCon cable is practical is when flying loudspeakers and you don't want to have an extra connection (which is an extra potential point of failure) 30' in the air that could become disconnected. Aside from that, I'd rather my power extension inventory be in more universally-functional connectors than in powerCon.

It begs the question, where are people using powerCon connectors that absolutely require SO-type instead of SJ-type, and 12/3 instead of 14/3?

Also, where are people using powerCon connectors on cables longer than 1m?

 

[Les]

... They should totally have an electrics convention and call it Power-Con.

/facepalm

 

[SteveB]

Also, where are people using powerCon connectors on cables longer than 1m?

I had an event last month that used a boatload of Martin MAC Aura's. All with PowerCon pass thru.

The tour elec. hung about 14 on 2 overhead pipes at 5ft spacing, and used 6ft PowerCon cables as power, pass-thru on fixtures 2 thru 7, with Fix 1 having a PowerCon to L6-20 ft. adapter, to a 6 circ. multi feeding at 208v.

I know this elec. well, he's awful and I'm certain he sets up this rig with all 14 Aura's on a truss (US/DS) feeding thru the entire Aura set.

So 14 fixtures @ 1.2a ea. (208v rating) = about 17 amp draw.

All the cabling is (from what I can tell) 12/3 SJO, so he's in theory OK, but I know he can't add 2+2 and does no calculating of the loads and only knows he's got a problem when a breaker trips and then can't figure out why.

PowerCon in this instance, while making his life easy, makes it too easy as he just daisy's along, like it's DMX.

 

[sk8rsdad]

Also, where are people using powerCon connectors on cables longer than 1m?

Pretty much everywhere in my rig. Lots of D40s with more than 2' of spacing between them.

 

[MNicolai]

Hmm.

Our facility opted to go a different way with a D60 rig. We don't use pass-throughs at all and use Lex E-Strings along the electrics to provide distributed power for the instruments. We find that much easier than trying to stock various lengths and quantities of pass-through cables that can only be used as pass-through cables and can not be used for other applications.

To say the least, I have yet to jump on the ship that pass-through power cables are the smoothest option for lightning instruments except where those instrument are permanently fixed.

 

[soundman]

To say the least, I have yet to jump on the ship that pass-through power cables are the smoothest option for lightning instruments except where those instrument are permanently fixed.

I have two good examples of using the pass-through. First was using some Color Force 12s in BAT truss for a tour. Each stick of truss had three or four of the CF 12s hung just below the bottom cord, to save on twofering and break out boxes the first fixture in the chain had an L6-20 to powercon adapter and the rest daisy chained together. I think we used 5' powercon cables as that was the shortest the shop had.

Second example is from a different tour, we had a custom bracket built to house a Motion Labs load cell hub and a Motion Labs server hub together. We had some 18" powercon jumpers made to jump from the server hub to the loadcell hub saving a twofer or a cube tap. Worked great.

 

[SteveB]

Hmm.

Our facility opted to go a different way with a D60 rig. We don't use pass-throughs at all and use Lex E-Strings along the electrics to provide distributed power for the instruments. We find that much easier than trying to stock various lengths and quantities of pass-through cables that can only be used as pass-through cables and can not be used for other applications.

To say the least, I have yet to jump on the ship that pass-through power cables are the smoothest option for lightning instruments except where those instrument are permanently fixed.

Agreed.

I understand the ease of use with LED's that are adjacent, but.....

I hate the PowerCon concept. I hate when the fixture power cables are in a different friggin road case, usually at the bottom of a pile of crap I need last, so now I have to dig out the PowerCon cables.

I hate then you have a 3ft unit-to-unit cable and need to move a unit and now need a longer cable (which you would have to do with a unit that has built in power cord anyway) as well as needing a frigging barrel (which isn't UL listed), which the road electrician has run out of or lost a few on the tour.

We don't need another ****ed type of electrical connector on the stage. We have Edison, 2P&G, L5-20 and L6-20. ENOUGH !.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Agreed.

I understand the ease of use with LED's that are adjacent, but.....

I hate the PowerCon concept. I hate when the fixture power cables are in a different friggin road case, usually at the bottom of a pile of crap I need last, so now I have to dig out the PowerCon cables.

I hate then you have a 3ft unit-to-unit cable and need to move a unit and now need a longer cable (which you would have to do with a unit that has built in power cord anyway) as well as needing a frigging barrel (which isn't UL listed), which the road electrician has run out of or lost a few on the tour.

We don't need another ****ed type of electrical connector on the stage. We have Edison, 2P&G, L5-20 and L6-20. ENOUGH !.

If the acceptable length for SJOOW is 1 Meter, then I think the best solution is to have cords with Edison (or twist) Plugs or Receptacles on one end and Powercon ins or outs on the other. That way, if you DO want to use the pass through, you already have over 6 feet of cable to work with by just plugging these together. No barrel needed. AND if you desire to go over 6', just use the Edison that you ALREADY have. I agree that PowerCon is best intended as a locking replacement for the IEC connector. Of course, there is also locking IEC now, so I guess it's just whatever makes the manufacturer happy.

I have worked a lot with a local shop that has done this method with their entire stock of Chauvet LED gear. IEC on one end and NEMA 5-15 on the other. I think it works great.

For what its worth, most tours that come through have all their cable assemblies custom built, loomed, and often living on the truss. It's just hang, plug & play.

The last thing we need is another connector type to create huge inventories of.

 

[JCarroll]

Thats what about half of our powercon stock is. M Edison -> Powercon Blue, Powercon White -> FM Edison. If you plug them together you have a 6 foot jumper, or you could have a 30 foot jumper with a 25 foot edison.

 

[MNicolai]

If the acceptable length for SJOOW is 1 Meter, then I think the best solution is to have cords with Edison (or twist) Plugs or Receptacles on one end and Powercon ins or outs on the other. That way, if you DO want to use the pass through, you already have over 6 feet of cable to work with by just plugging these together. No barrel needed. AND if you desire to go over 6', just use the Edison that you ALREADY have.

I have worked a lot with a local shop that has done this method with their entire stock of Chauvet LED gear. IEC on one end and NEMA 5-15 on the other. I think it works great.

Sounds like an unnecessary increase in the potential points of failure in a system. I don't doubt that it works for you, but to me it sounds more complicated than turning lights on should be.

 

[derekleffew]

... I hate the PowerCon concept. I hate when the fixture power cables ...
We don't need another ****ed type of electrical connector on the stage. We have Edison, 2P&G, L5-20 and L6-20. ENOUGH !.

While I'm not sure I disagree, I'll debate the "pro" side...

What about when a shops owns a type of light that can (and does often, run on two different voltages, like discussed here (auto-ranging PSU).)?
If the unit has a permanently-attached whip, one must stock and use adapters, some of which are illegal/dangerous. Or the shop is constantly removing/installing different plugs.
OR
If the unit has a PowerCON input, one stocks two styles of whips: 208V-to-PowerCon and 125V-to-PowerCon. And sends both out with every unit rented (although if using Powercon jumpers, one only needs to worry about the first unit in the chain).

Most manufacturers of LED lights (including ETC, or maybe they are just acquiescing to market demand) see Powercon/power pass through as a feature. Edison or other flanged inlet s/ flanged outlet s take up too much space on the unit. Maybe you'd rather they have two 1m whips for power input and thru? Or as MNicolai suggests, no pass-thru at all and have to use big honkin' ugly 12/3 SOOW two-fer s, cube tap s, and cables, when each unit only draws 3A or less?

Now why Vari-Lite choose to use it on their newest, 208V-only, fixtures; that I don't get.
.

 

[Footer]

No LED's around here (yet), but I have a powercon install that is 11 years old in our PA. All of my Meyer UPM-1P's are powered via powercon. We have looms with XLR webbed to SJ cable with powercon on both ends. We even have powercon plugs in junction boxes alongside our signal outputs for those boxes (illegaly I believe, but it was the way it was installed... and it is a state building so rules are not always followed). I have cables from 2' to 20' for these boxes. Depending on the configuration of the show we can move around the boxes to wherever we need.