Riding an A-Frame Extension Ladder

[FortMacTech]

In Alberta you have to protect the public (volunteers, audience, etc) as much as your employees. I find it troubling that people will quibble over details rather than look after safety. Basic hazard and risk assessment must become the norm in our industry before the authorities force us to follow their rules that they make up for us. Another troubling stat in Alberta is the number of fatalities from falls at level as well as falls at height. For the people working above seats, you need to watch fall protection videos that show what happens when a person lands on a chair. You will never take a chance again....!

 

[mstaylor]

Of course not. But the point remains that a small community theater, or a small college theater program like mine can barely afford to get a few new instruments each year, much less a big, expensive lift. Its just not fiscally possible. What are good solutions for this type of situation? We have a scaffolding, but its not usable in our black box right now because of how seating is arranged. That said, neither are our AFrames. Actually, what is a good option for this type of situation? Extension ladders have been the traditional means, but I have heard bad things about them and working with lights on them.

What is the height of your electrics over the seating?

 

[SHARYNF]

More people die slipping in the bath tub in the US each year 341 than falling off a ladder 300. In addition the fatalities are not from people at high heights, or moving the ladder etc, but from over reaching.

It may really shock you that more people die each year in the US from improper medical practice than from heart disease or froj cancer

"Shocking statistical evidence is cited by Gary Null PhD, Caroly Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD and Dorothy Smith PhD in their recent paper Death by Medicine - October 2003, released by the Nutrition Institute of America.

"A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.

According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die annually due to medical mistakes. Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was 553,251."

So you are more likely to die from the medical system than you would ever imaging.

So the main reason not to fall of the ladder might be not the fall but the hospital visit after the fall ;-)))))

Sharyn

 

[soundman]

More people die slipping in the bath tub in the US each year 341 than falling off a ladder 300. In addition the fatalities are not from people at high heights, or moving the ladder etc, but from over reaching.
.....
So you are more likely to die from the medical system than you would ever imaging.

So the main reason not to fall of the ladder might be not the fall but the hospital visit after the fall ;-)))))

Sharyn

When I play craps I place money on the pass line and on four. The odds of hitting four are slim but it pays well when it does which adds excitement. I for one like to keep the gambling on the casino floor with a drink in my hand NOT while at work in the air. I will admit I get pushed around at heights in man lifts and sometimes carry things up ladders but only when the conditions are favorable. I wouldn't want to carry a speaker up a ladder but I could handle a scroller power supply. The same way if I was working in a space where the stage was not flat I would bounce the lift.

As for telling the administration about the expensive cost of some one getting hurt, I prefer to ask them if they will make the call to the family or clean up any mess. Putting a dollar number on someones life means it goes into the budget, making it ethical goes into the soul.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Here's an anecdote I'd like to share about riding in man-lifts.

My university participates in ACTF, Region 3. Two years ago at load in we were pushing an electrician around in an elevated Handy Herman(think Genie on steroids). In our feedback we learned we had been docked crucial points for pushing a man around at height.

 

[soundman]

Here's an anecdote I'd like to share about riding in man-lifts.

My university participates in ACTF, Region 3. Two years ago at load in we were pushing an electrician around in an elevated Handy Herman(think Genie on steroids). In our feedback we learned we had been docked crucial points for pushing a man around at height.

We participated in the same region, ACTF load in rehearsals were one of the few times when we would bounce the genie for that exact reason.

 

[Footer]

Here's an anecdote I'd like to share about riding in man-lifts.

My university participates in ACTF, Region 3. Two years ago at load in we were pushing an electrician around in an elevated Handy Herman(think Genie on steroids). In our feedback we learned we had been docked crucial points for pushing a man around at height.

They would dock you but would not stop you.... I think that sums up the entire argument.

 

[RichMoore]

I have been reading all of this with great interest and it seems that unlike everyone else on this board, I am a fan of A-frames. As some of you may remember a couple of my stories involving A-frame ladders that caused a few sphincters to contract to the point that needles would not have been able to be pounded into that particular orifice, but I do have a couple of questions for which I would love to have honest answers........before this is considered to be praising the dreaded A-frame and this thread is pulled.

What other method of elevating yourself would you use, when...1.) a Genie can't get there....2.) there is no room or time to build a scaffold...3.) the house opens in 30 minutes and the lamp in a key light just blew in a dead hung house? Are you going to A.) refuse to fix it and go home...B.) tell the actors to change their blocking and move into a lighted area...C.) cancel the show....or D.)STFU...climb up the ladder and do your job?

I know what I would do.........what would you do?

 

[Grog12]

More people die slipping in the bath tub in the US each year 341 than falling off a ladder 300. In addition the fatalities are not from people at high heights, or moving the ladder etc, but from over reaching.

What are the statistics on life changing injuries for the same to instances?

 

[fredthe]

I know what I would do.........what would you do?

If it's a straight A-frame, no problem. As long as the base is on sound and level footing, go on up. This is the intended purpose for an A-frame ladder. It's when you roll around on it, hang from a center extension on a trestle ladder, etc. that people will take exception.

If you can't safely access it, then your choice is to hold the house until it can be safely fixed, or block around it. Better a show delayed for safety, than one cancelled for injury or death.

-Fred

 

[Footer]

What other method of elevating yourself would you use, when...1.) a Genie can't get there....2.) there is no room or time to build a scaffold...3.) the house opens in 30 minutes and the lamp in a key light just blew in a dead hung house? Are you going to A.) refuse to fix it and go home...B.) tell the actors to change their blocking and move into a lighted area...C.) cancel the show....or D.)STFU...climb up the ladder and do your job?

I know what I would do.........what would you do?

When you do a lamp check pre-show you should always have enough time to get whatever troubleshooting needs to be done. I always say lamp check is half hour before anyone hits the stage and could run an hour if I have issues. With 2 people you can get a scaff tower up and down in 20 minutes. A bit of prep goes a long way. If you have to hold the house... hold the house. If go is at 8, and you did lamp check at 6:30, you should have more then enough time to do what you need to do.

 

[Peyton]

While OSHA laws don't cover students, an educational institution should use those regulations as MINIMUM standards for work safety. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Many states have work place safety laws that far exceed OSHA regs, and they could apply to non-employees. Washington State's fall protection laws are much more restrictive than the federal laws.

My school has all students in the tech class watch a video on relevant topics and then some, then they have to pass a test on the facts in the video to be able to work in class. If you don't pass the test, you don't get points for participation and you fail.

Do you have a source for the fall protection laws? I wanna read up. I'd imagine that they would be here, but i cant find it.

 

[mstaylor]

Try this. OSHA's A-Z Index Page You have to read multible locations to cover all the proper info. Some is in the industrial codes and others are in the general industry section.

 

[KeepOnTruckin]

A stage I frequently work at has a Genie lift and we've come up with the perfect solution for rolling/moving the unit at trim height.

We purchased four piano casters. These are three wheeled triangle units made of steel with a center detent. One goes under each outrigger. We crank the outriggers down until the fail safe lights go out. Works extremely well.

Sorry to quote from several pages, back. Let me just say that Officially, Genie Industries specifically prohibits this, and any other modifications.

In my opinion, sounds like an alright idea.

 

[Grog12]

Sorry to quote from several pages, back. Let me just say that Officially, Genie Industries specifically prohibits this, and any other modifications.

In my opinion, sounds like an alright idea.

Speaking as someone who's almost been tipped out of a genie, and having worked with several people who have.....

Yeah no thanks. I'll come down. We have time.

 

[jwl868]

My school has all students in the tech class watch a video on relevant topics and then some, then they have to pass a test on the facts in the video to be able to work in class. If you don't pass the test, you don't get points for participation and you fail.

Do you have a source for the fall protection laws? I wanna read up. I'd imagine that they would be here, but i cant find it.

Washington State's OSHA Fall Restraint regs are here:

Fall Restraint and Fall Arrest-Chapter 296-155-Part C-1


Washington States OSHA page is here:

Safety

(Note: "Laws" are passed by legislatures; "regulations" are developed by government agencies under the authority of a law. Usually (but no always) there are few details in the laws themselves.)


US OSHA regulations can be found in Title 29 Code of Federal Regulations (29 CFR). For the regulations, I prefer to use the eCFR at the US GPO site. Fall protection is discussed in 29 CFR 1910 Subpart D for General Industry and 29 CFR Subpart M for Construction Industry. The regulations can be difficult to read at first because of the cross referencing. The OSHA webpage is a good starting point becasue they put many of the regs in "plain English".

Joe

 

[shiben]

Someone asked earlier about the height of our electrics: The space is built in a black box with a pipe grid at 16'. There are no catwalks, and about 3 feet above the grid where there are girders to hold up the patio above the space.

 

[Footer]

Someone asked earlier about the height of our electrics: The space is built in a black box with a pipe grid at 16'. There are no catwalks, and about 3 feet above the grid where there are girders to hold up the patio above the space.

You are well within ladder territory there. I would recommend that a regular fiberglass A-Frame ladder be used. Werner makes double sided ladders that size that are great.

Werner Ladder

 

[fredthe]

You are well within ladder territory there. I would recommend that a regular fiberglass A-Frame ladder be used. Werner makes double sided ladders that size that are great.]

They also make casters (look under accessories on their webaite,) to help you in moving the ladder when you aren't on it.

Edit: See Footer's comment below, they don't fit the double-sided/larger ladders.

-Fred

 

[Footer]

They also make casters (look under accessories on their webaite,) to help you in moving the ladder when you aren't on it.

-Fred

Note: Fits only ladders originally equipped with casters.

No manufacture is going to allow casters to be put on a ladder not designed for it. If you don't get casters when you bought it, you should not put casters on it after the fact.