Safety?

[DuckJordan]

I'm sure you've all heard the saying Safety first. but really should it be, if you are trying to accomplish something is in not ok to cut a corner once or twice when you need to such as how when your flying everyone should be wearing a helmet. or painting everyone should wear a respirator. I'm all for safety but when it starts becoming such a huge focus don't your shows all suffer?

This is just a rant about all the safety articles I've been seeing lately. to me it just seems a waste of time to have everyone in the catwalk wear a harness and be clipped to the rail as to "if they fall" sort of thing. what are you thoughts?

 

[cprted]

Safety isn't a waste of time. If it can't be done safely, don't do it. Being injured sucks. Being dead sucks more.

 

[GrayeKnight]

No, I don't think it's a waste of time. There are ways of doing things safely yet quickly.

 

[Javert]

Wait, what's this about hardhats while flying? That's a new one on me. Personally, I'm all for safety - one of my rules of thumb as to whether something is a good idea is "If I mess up, how will the accident report look?"

 

[sstolnack]

I think the OP is talking about some of the saftey rules, that while may make sense on paper, aren't very realistic. Hard hats? haven't heard of it, but I doubt many theatres do that. The harness and clip onto catwalks? supposedly we're supposed to do that at my theatre, but there are guardrails all the way across. You'd have to try pretty hard to fall. Also, I don't believe we ever actually got the harnesses we were supposed to wear, and one of the lines we were supposed to clip onto was about 6 inches directly below the pipe to hang lights on. So unless we wanted to top hang all our lights on the catwalk... the people before me took it down as soon as they saw the problem. Also things like not moving a genie lift when someone's up in it. Sorry, I'm not going to come down so it can be moved 5 feet over to get to the next light.
I'm all for saftey, but these are things that go a little over the top in my opinion.

 

[DuckJordan]

you hit it right on the nail i wasn't saying lets all put forks in the closest socket and see what happens I'm just saying safety should not always be first. it should always be thought about but it does not have to come before all other things. many productions i have done have required me to to some really un-safe things i have yet to get hurt because i think before i do them and take as much as i can for safety such as when hanging our side lights we are supposed to use a lift... but trying to get a lift or such device up the stairs or in an elevator then down stairs is nearly impossible. How often do you shut off a dimmer when checking a light? or do you unplug and plug in without first shutting off the channel? or another thing when you are working on the sound board do you shut off the whole system to plug in another device?

 

[Les]

Also things like not moving a genie lift when someone's up in it. Sorry, I'm not going to come down so it can be moved 5 feet over to get to the next light.
I'm all for saftey, but these are things that go a little over the top in my opinion.

Here's where I get off the bus. NEVER use a personal lift without outriggers unless it was designed to be used that way. Alternately, do NOT move one fully extended unless the manufacturer specifically states that it is OK to do so. It takes all of 5 minutes to come down and unscrew the outrigger feet enough to move it, retighten it and go back up. This is not an ok corner to cut.

so instead of that we hang from our guard rail. i use the standard wrap a leg and lock it technique but i'm sure that is not a safety first scenario.

This is not an ok thing to do, and by making this statement, you are not making a very good case for yourself. If you MUST do this, at least wear an OSHA approved harness with a lifeline that is secured to an appropriate structural support in accordance with OSHA regulations. Your procedure is one of the most dangerous I have read here on CB. What if, one day, while doing your tried-and-true "leg lock", your pants rip or your shoe comes off? Also, what is the load rating on that rail? Can it handle a dynamic load such as your body hanging from it and moving about while hanging a lighting instrument? What if some young technician visits this thread and decides that "hey, I can do this technique on the rails at my high school" and as it turns out, his rails, unlike yours can't support the weight of his body and he then falls to his death? You have to think of other readers who are here to learn before posting something like this. Just because it has worked up until this point, doesn't mean it will work forever. Some people drive on worn out tires. Things are ok for them right now, but eventually they will have a blowout or slide off the road.

EDIT: I just reread the post and you said "guard rail". So you mean to tell me that you hang from the guard rail on your personal lift? Doing this is even more unsafe and changes the lift's center of gravity. Think of it this way. Say a new guy who weighs 50 pounds more than you sees you do this and thinks he can do it too. But due to his increased weight, he changes the lift's center of gravity just enough to tip it over. Not only does he fall, but the lift may land on top of him.

think of it this way, How often do you shut off a dimmer when checking a light? or do you unplug and plug in without first shutting off the channel?

Hot patching is not as much of a safety rule (other than creating the possibility of electrocution by touching the exposed pins as they are entering or leaving the female connector) as it is a rule for the purpose of increasing the life of your (or someone else's) equipment. Every time you connect or disconnect a fixture under load, you are causing a small spark between the connectors which will wear them down over time and eventually cause a failure. Depending on the type of failure it is, it could then become a safety issue (i.e. meltdown). It might not happen to you, but it could happen to the person after you. So when you do this, you are inadvertently disregarding the safety of future technicians handling that equipment.

Contrary to the headline of this category, I don't think these are "tips, tricks and rules that every technician should know".

 

[dcollins]

Safety is always first. If it's dangerous, you don't do it.

However, it isn't dangerous to unplug an instrument without switching the dimmer off, that's crazy. Hot-plugging instruments is OK (Line voltage isn't enough to cause an arc between hot and neutral, though you may get hot-to-hot sparks, which can be shocking (not literally unless you're really dumb and touch something you shouldn't) if you aren't expecting it, but not dangerous) but should be avoided if easily possible. If there is a situation where someone can actually get shocked, or can fall, or where equipment can be damaged, or where something that's rigged can become unrigged, that's a safety issue. But there's a point where you get good practices but not actual safety issues.

 

[erosing]

And here we have a few ways to get fired or killed.

Outriggers are there for a reason. I saw an electrician get booted by the venues TD from a hang three weeks ago for ignoring outriggers. I would not be surprised if that person never works at that venue again. I would also like to note that when this electrician did have the outriggers in during the morning, they were improperly set up which got them their first warning, tilting 15 degrees to the left is not safe.

Rules are there for a reason. Believe it or not they will save your butt eventually.

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[rochem]

I think the OP does bring up a good point, but some of his examples aren't the best. The point, as I read it anyways, being that our concept of safety is determined by the standards which we hold ourselves to. Not many years ago, people were doing things which we now find incredibly unsafe, but which they probably did every day without giving it a second thought. A perfect example is the woodstock video Derek posted a while back.


Thirty years from now, future technicians could look back and comment on how ignorant of common safety practices we must have all been because we actually stacked roadcases! Rather than waiting for a forklift to stack them, we actually used people to lift one case on top of another! Someone could have injured their back! In the future, of course, no one would ever stack road cases themselves. They'd just wait for the forklift to come do it for them, and even though every load-out would take four extra hours, it'd be much safer and better.

An excessive example? Possibly. But the point is that you are never totally safe. No matter how many safety procedures we follow or actions we take, there's always the chance that we could be killed or seriously injured, especially in the theatre. Where does "reasonable safety measures" end and "efficiency" begin? Is there a number which defines this threshold, such as X number of deaths per million actions? Per billion? Sure, there's always the chance, however slim, that the entire grid could come crashing to the floor. Should we therefore not allow anyone to ever go into the stagehouse?

Note that I am not condoning the OPs actions, nor am I condemning them either. Rather, I am just pointing out that the OPs original idea does have content worthy of discussion.

 

[erosing]

Yes the original idea does seem worth disscussing, however much of what has been discussed seems to violate the rules.

If the examples being discussed were, mandatory gloves for working a fly system for example, I believe there would be a different tone or as you have suggested, the stacking of road cases.


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[sstolnack]

In response to those concerned about my theatre's genie lift use;
We do use the outriggers, the genie doesn't even work without them, and we don't ever max the genie (our running height for the electrics is at about half of the genie's max), and when we move the genie, it is for less than 5 feet. But considering the huge reaction to this, I will start avoiding this.

Edit: on the topic of less dangerous saftey topics, do people use gloves when focusing lights?

 

[ruinexplorer]

I'm sure you've all heard the saying Safety first. but really should it be, if you are trying to accomplish something is in not ok to cut a corner once or twice when you need to such as how when your flying everyone should be wearing a helmet. or painting everyone should wear a respirator. I'm all for safety but when it starts becoming such a huge focus don't your shows all suffer?

This is just a rant about all the safety articles I've been seeing lately. to me it just seems a waste of time to have everyone in the catwalk wear a harness and be clipped to the rail as to "if they fall" sort of thing. what are you thoughts?

As we spend more time working in this industry, our focus seems to lead towards the most safe practices. Our younger counterparts are often under the assumption that if they managed to do it without injury once, then it must be safe. Those of us who have been in the industry long enough will undoubtedly have known someone personally or worked in a venue where someone has been seriously injured or been killed. That starts to open your eyes to your own practices. Unfortunately, by human nature, those with fewer years in the industry are not as affected by tales of accidents and many of us get over confident in our practices as the years go by. We feel that they know how to do it without having an accident. Here's and example of someone who thought they knew what they were doing.

There are certain precautions we take that will be different from venue to venue. There are others that are law. You can bet that working for a larger corporation you will have more safety regulations than small firms or community theater. That's not to always say that these companies have more dangerous work conditions (though they sometimes do), but they have a greater need to protect their assets. Unfortunately, at low level theater (educational, community, or small budget professional), the technicians are more "expendable" and as such the technician is more of an asset if he/she will take more of a risk. This often goes with the mindset of "the show must go on." How many injuries/deaths do you think that mindset has resulted in?

Yes, it is our duty to do everything in our power to make the show go on, but even large corporate shows (with 1/4 million dollar in ticket sales) will cancel a show if need be. Your life, that of a performer, and especially one of an audience member is not worth the risk. Safety is always first! Sometimes a safety measure may be misunderstood, but that doesn't mean that it should be ignored. My catwalks have safety lines to tie into, but I have been trained to know when I need to be in fall protection. I can't tell you when you do because I don't work in your theater.

An employer (in the US) must provide a workplace free from serious recognized hazards and comply with standards, rules and regulations issued under the OSHA Act. They must establish operating procedures and communicate them so that employees follow safety and health requirements. The employee must comply with all regulations. Where it gets sticky is when you have volunteers who are not covered under these regulations. That is where our industry attempts to provide guidelines for safety. This is our goal here on CB. If you do something stupid, you can ruin the rest of your life. What you think is a pain to do may have been set forth to save your life. A hand railing is only designed to support 200 pounds, while a fall protection tie off point must support 5000 pounds. Do you think those are arbitrary numbers? If those regulations have come from scientific data and established to protect you, do you know with certainty when you can "cut corners"? I don't think so. And before anyone says, "it's my life", then you shouldn't be working around anyone, ever. What you do not only affects you, but it can potentially affect so many other people, maybe even your friends and family.

 

[DuckJordan]

I Understand what you are saying, but quite often i find it more dangerous to follow safety guidelines that are in place, I am all for safety as my original post says i am just talking about the over the top safety, such as don't swim after you eat for 30 mins, quite often it is one random occurrence that had other factors that cause safety guidelines to become law. I am not saying that you should hang yourself outside of your catwalk railing without a harness on i am stating if you are walking and just picking up unused gel frames or such a wire and safety harness is really more of a hindrance.

I am all for safety and i know of such accidents. I have seen them happen. Most of the accidents were caused by uncontrollable things... But when guidelines state that helmets should be worn when flying something in, i feel its quite inefficient and more hazards than if they are just taught "Heads" means to look for incoming battens. Most safety precautions seem to make people feel invincible and that's why i think more and more accidents are happening is because of the safety gear.

I think most places don't worry about proper training anymore and just say hey you have safety gear on your ok.

 

[photoatdv]

Well I do agree that the safety rules can sometimes be more for the CYA type stuff than real safety. One of the theatres I work at requires fall protection for some things and not others... problem is it seems like someone threw the work locations in a hat and randomly drew out the locations to require it. Also while you're unlikely to hit the ground, the ways they do it in many of the locations mean you would hit something else. In one place the shock absorbers plus lanyards would probably mean you'd hit the seats (I refuse to work in that one)... best part is without the shock absorber (and using the right size lanyard) you'd fall about 1' max (but of course we need to used a shock absorber). Also the rescue plan is... uh... dunno. One time I asked someone they said call 911...

However, on the other side, I've also dealt with the clear people out of the shop (which is around a corner and through a rolling door) if there's rigging going on onstage. We never could figure that one out. Also people in a leadership position who start screaming and panicking in an emergency are not helpful.

I have seen people hang from lifts... I don't like it at all. They have always been my superior, so there is nothing I can do, but you better believe I'd stop them if I could. That's absolutely stupid as far as I'm concerned.

 

[cdub260]

I get a little tired of posting this story but it seems I need to post it again as it is a good example of the potential consequences of failing to follow proper safety procedures.

September 1st. of 2000. I was 25 years old. I was striking lights from the Irvine Bowl, the amphitheatre that houses the Pageant of the Masters. I cut a few corners on safety. I had been in the industry eleven years at this point and never had any kind of serious accident. My first safety cut was that I was not wearing a climbing harness, so I had nothing to catch me if I fell. My second cut was that I was carrying my lights down the truss rather than lowering them with a rope. Third, I was in a hurry to finish. As a matter of fact the only safety procedure that I did follow that night was that I wasn't working alone. I had someone else with me acting as a bottom man while I did the climbing, which makes the failure to use a rope that much more idiotic. But even there, I had violated this rule on any number of occasions in my previous eleven years in the industry.

I was in the process of carrying my last light down the truss and I was anxious to finish the job and get to the crew party. I was nearly half way down the truss when I missed my grip. I'm not sure exactly how far I fell, but it was somewhere between ten and fifteen feet. The way the fall started I really should have hit the ground head first. I've never been sure exactly how I managed to straighten myself out so that I hit the concrete steps feet first instead.

In short, I got lucky. That fall should have killed me. As it stands, I injured both of my knees and pinched a nerve in my back. The pinched nerve went undiagnosed for four years; four years in which I was in near constant pain. There again, it was pure blind luck that lead to discovering the pinched nerve. Nearly four years after my fall, I somehow managed to un-pinch it. While the pain is no longer a constant in my life, it's still a frequent visitor. I'm in the gym 3 to 5 days a week dealing with pain issues and take anti-inflamatories far more often than I'd like. Nine years later I'm still doing the same job I did then, but now I have learned to use the proper PPE for this and other aspects of my job and to follow proper procedures.

I'm lucky that I walked away from that fall with a lifetime of knee problems when I really should have died. This wasn't the only time that luck has saved me from serious injury or death, but you can't depend on luck. Luck will only take you so far, then it'll get you killed. Learn from my mistakes; don't make them yourself. Learn and follow proper safety procedures. Learn to use the proper PPE for a given activity, then use it properly.

I'm 35 years old now and I know I don't bounce as well as I did at 25, yet if I were to have the same accident now, I would come out of it in a lot better shape. Why? Because I no longer trust that because I've never had an accident doing something a certain way, that I never will. I learn and follow that proper safety procedures. If someone points out something I'm doing that they think is unsafe, I listen to them. They just may be right. I will not take the risks that I took in my younger days. I'm twenty years into my career and hope to live through the next twenty years.

There are a lot of people in my life who I care about and who care about me: my parents, my sisters, my brother, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews, friends, co-workers, my girlfriend and her kids. I will not hurt them by doing something stupid that gets me killed if there's any way I can avoid it. You're not the only person at risk when you skimp on safety. You risk hurting not only yourself and the people you work with, but everyone in your life who cares about you at all. Think about that when you decide to cut corners on safety.

 

[DuckJordan]

I think a lot of people are missing the point here, I am not saying when hanging lights never wear a harness. In your example were you on a truss or where you actually in a catwalk with railings and or walls? different scenarios mean different actions. I am not saying you should not wear a harness when hanging lights in a catwalk I am just stating being on a truss and being in a catwalk are two different forms of light placements. Your story is enlightening as it shows that safety should be kept at all times, was the bottom man wearing a hard hat? If i remember correctly i was taught if anything over head is being worked on you should ALWAYS wear a helmet. this is the kind of thing i am refering to not an obvious do not do, such as what i saw at a life light concert, but i won't go into that.

the point of this thread is not to say safety shouldn't be thought of, just that it shouldn't always be first, if safety were first at all times, there would be no hanging lights, there would be no set pieces, there would be no actors on stage, or audience members in the audience at 100% of all venues.

This thread just is a discussion of when safety is required at all times such as hanging lights at any height above 4'. not to mention how many times you've walked in a mall or a store and seen some water rot tiles on the ceiling whats to say an electrician didn't leave a wrench up there after installing conduit? what happens when that tile breaks and that wrench comes crashing down? this is just an example of where safety and keeping an eye out would be better.

 

[kiwitechgirl]

the point of this thread is not to say safety shouldn't be thought of, just that it shouldn't always be first, if safety were first at all times, there would be no hanging lights, there would be no set pieces, there would be no actors on stage, or audience members in the audience at 100% of all venues.

Safety shouldn't always be first? I have to disagree. Safety should always come first. What I do think, though, is that sometimes "safety" is taken to a ridiculous degree. With sensible assessing of risk and the appropriate management of those risks, safety doesn't need to be prohibitive to day-to-day work, which it can sometimes do. For instance, in my venue, a lot of the time we have to rig lights off ladders (bars don't fly and often the sets prohibit getting the scaff tower in) but we always have one person up the ladder and one running ground support for them; lanterns are roped up and never carried up the ladder and if anyone is having a day where they don't feel up to climbing then they're put on another job. In my view, that's still making safety a priority but not letting it get in the way of the job. If you're sensible about it, safety can and should be the first priority.

 

[dcollins]

Safety shouldn't always be first? I have to disagree. Safety should always come first. What I do think, though, is that sometimes "safety" is taken to a ridiculous degree. With sensible assessing of risk and the appropriate management of those risks, safety doesn't need to be prohibitive to day-to-day work, which it can sometimes do. For instance, in my venue, a lot of the time we have to rig lights off ladders (bars don't fly and often the sets prohibit getting the scaff tower in) but we always have one person up the ladder and one running ground support for them; lanterns are roped up and never carried up the ladder and if anyone is having a day where they don't feel up to climbing then they're put on another job. In my view, that's still making safety a priority but not letting it get in the way of the job. If you're sensible about it, safety can and should be the first priority.

This. All of this.

 

[museav]

I'm sure you've all heard the saying Safety first. but really should it be, if you are trying to accomplish something is in not ok to cut a corner once or twice when you need to such as how when your flying everyone should be wearing a helmet. or painting everyone should wear a respirator. I'm all for safety but when it starts becoming such a huge focus don't your shows all suffer?

I'm just saying safety should not always be first. it should always be thought about but it does not have to come before all other things.

That's apparently what some people felt in this case as well, http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/facility/17208-106-years-ago-today.html. A bit extreme but the point is are you willing to find out after the fact that safety should have come first?