Les
Well-Known Member
I was excluding ladders. That's a whole 'nother can o' worms.
Safety?
- Thread starterDuckJordan
- Start date
I was excluding ladders. That's a whole 'nother can o' worms.
That's why I say common sense leads us only as far as we're naturally prepared to go, which is where standards set in place for the workplace by groups like OSHA, NEC, and so on allow us to function safely with the knowledge they've done the research to derive safe practices that our natural common sense may not have lead us to. The hand-off between common sense and regulation is where people start to function in a capacity they maybe aren't use to.
For example, how to use a hammer is pretty simple. Hopefully most of us can figure that one out on our own. It would be pointless of OSHA to spend a lot of time putting together regulations and standards for hammer use unless there was it was clear that people were having trouble doing that. However, the safe operation of an articulating boom lift on a sloped surface probably falls beyond the bounds of said natural intelligence. People can take rough estimates on what's safe and what isn't, but they'd be at best educated guesses. That's where OSHA and the manufacturer's of that equipment step in and have their rules, regulations, and words of wisdom to point out clearly to everyone what practices are or are not safe.
If it was OSHA's job to navigate common sense by making rules on how people should use regular hammers, step stools, and office supplies, nothing would ever get done because everyone would be regulation happy. When I'm at work, I rely on OSHA not to tell me how to tie my shoes (unless I'm wearing specific PPE that requires a special way to have them tied), but to provide a means for me to get my duties done without maiming myself. Thus, I think common sense and natural intelligence are a defining point between "Just be careful" and "You'd better not get killed because if you do I have to fill out of a lot of paperwork."
For example, how to use a hammer is pretty simple. Hopefully most of us can figure that one out on our own. It would be pointless of OSHA to spend a lot of time putting together regulations and standards for hammer use unless there was it was clear that people were having trouble doing that. However, the safe operation of an articulating boom lift on a sloped surface probably falls beyond the bounds of said natural intelligence. People can take rough estimates on what's safe and what isn't, but they'd be at best educated guesses. That's where OSHA and the manufacturer's of that equipment step in and have their rules, regulations, and words of wisdom to point out clearly to everyone what practices are or are not safe.
If it was OSHA's job to navigate common sense by making rules on how people should use regular hammers, step stools, and office supplies, nothing would ever get done because everyone would be regulation happy. When I'm at work, I rely on OSHA not to tell me how to tie my shoes (unless I'm wearing specific PPE that requires a special way to have them tied), but to provide a means for me to get my duties done without maiming myself. Thus, I think common sense and natural intelligence are a defining point between "Just be careful" and "You'd better not get killed because if you do I have to fill out of a lot of paperwork."
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An instructor for a forklift certification class once said that if you mess up and hurt somebody, it's seven pages or paperwork, if you kill them it's one.
A fork is a good example of a required cert that isn't that hard to get but the training is invaluable. To get on a fork and move things from point A to point B isn't that hard to learn, but knowing how lifting higher or moving things out on the forks changes the capacity is something a fork op needs to know. Knowing where the data plates are and what the info means is not an obvious thing to pick up that training will teach you.
Fall protection, lifts of all types and scaffolding are all things we should learn about. For anybody that works with the public should know basic firast-aid, CPR and operation of AEDs.
A fork is a good example of a required cert that isn't that hard to get but the training is invaluable. To get on a fork and move things from point A to point B isn't that hard to learn, but knowing how lifting higher or moving things out on the forks changes the capacity is something a fork op needs to know. Knowing where the data plates are and what the info means is not an obvious thing to pick up that training will teach you.
Fall protection, lifts of all types and scaffolding are all things we should learn about. For anybody that works with the public should know basic firast-aid, CPR and operation of AEDs.
Well I'm a little late to this discussion but I want to throw out a story about how it's done in a big time show. (As you no doubt are sick of me talking about by now) I took that backstage tour at Cirque Du Soleil Ka during LDI 2008. On the tour we noticed that just about everyone on the crew was wearing a harness. We were told this was because the policy is if you get within 3 feet of an edge you hook in. All over the theater there are areas painted yellow marking that the 6 foot line and a conveniently located way to hook in.
So during the performance I was lucky enough to be paired up with the deck electrician and follow him on stage. At a couple of different points in the show he goes out on a stage about 25' square which is open to a 20'+ fall in the front edge. He walks out on the deck between scenes to place specials and help with the placement of props. He told me that while some of these jobs technically belong to someone else he's already out there and already harnessed in so it just makes sense for him to do the prop placement work. I commented that it seemed a little odd to me that he needed to be harnessed in when on the deck as he doesn't get anywhere near the front edge and it slows him down quite a bit to get out there because of the retractor. He told me that after 5 or 6 years of doing this show 10 times a week he fell off that stage just a few weeks before. It's a fall that would have easily killed him. Okay, point taken.
While the technical wizardry was amazing backstage at KA, I was even more impressed at the level of attention paid to safety. It doesn't get any more big time than Cirque and I assure you they never cut a corner, they get the job done safely, and if a situation is too dangerous the show get's canceled. This is a show that generates $500,000 per night. Canceling a performance is SERIOUS money. If you were working there and got caught not hooking in because it slows you down too much. You would be fired immediately. We are talking about a show that generates about $5,000,000 per week... and the show does NOT go on if there is a dangerous situation.
Do you want to be a professional stage technician and have a chance to work a big time gig some day? Learn to do your job safely.
So during the performance I was lucky enough to be paired up with the deck electrician and follow him on stage. At a couple of different points in the show he goes out on a stage about 25' square which is open to a 20'+ fall in the front edge. He walks out on the deck between scenes to place specials and help with the placement of props. He told me that while some of these jobs technically belong to someone else he's already out there and already harnessed in so it just makes sense for him to do the prop placement work. I commented that it seemed a little odd to me that he needed to be harnessed in when on the deck as he doesn't get anywhere near the front edge and it slows him down quite a bit to get out there because of the retractor. He told me that after 5 or 6 years of doing this show 10 times a week he fell off that stage just a few weeks before. It's a fall that would have easily killed him. Okay, point taken.
While the technical wizardry was amazing backstage at KA, I was even more impressed at the level of attention paid to safety. It doesn't get any more big time than Cirque and I assure you they never cut a corner, they get the job done safely, and if a situation is too dangerous the show get's canceled. This is a show that generates $500,000 per night. Canceling a performance is SERIOUS money. If you were working there and got caught not hooking in because it slows you down too much. You would be fired immediately. We are talking about a show that generates about $5,000,000 per week... and the show does NOT go on if there is a dangerous situation.
Do you want to be a professional stage technician and have a chance to work a big time gig some day? Learn to do your job safely.
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I'm going to have to conditionally disagree with one of the statements made earlier on in this discussion:
I would contend that serious injury sucks more than dead. If you end up quadriplegic for the rest of your life, in many cases you'd probably prefer you'd been finished off. Serious injury is in many cases a far more painful outcome than death, the quality of life for the individual affected just isn't there.
It was touched on previously. In a fall arrest harness you have just 20 minutes before you sustain permanent damage to your body after a fall. Hence the criticality of a rescue plan before you start climbing.
Yes, at times "safety" can be complete overkill. I've been told a story of an orchestra playing in an exhibition hall you had to put on hi vis to walk 10m from the door onto the stage because a forklift was operating in some far corner of the space. Yes a spotter would have been a more effective means of managing the risk in this instance - the orchestra were permitting to ditch their vests once on stage. But you know what? They all did it, stupid as it was.
Most audience would be utterly appalled if they knew someone had risked their life for a mere show. If we were in any other industry you would not even think about taking the risk.
I've seen multi million dollar fireworks displays cancelled because the weather was not right and thus it was not safe to continue. And we're talking here about displays that get beamed to television across the globe.
Most normal people will understand if you have to delay or can a show because it was unsafe not to.
That said, have we all at times, with the adrenalin of a show running done something that in hindsight was unwise? Sure. I did it a month ago. With experience you get to a point where you can do a quick and dirty risk assessment mentally in the heat of the moment and thus make decisions accordingly. To do so takes experience and an understanding of the components of the task - how they relate to physics say in the case of heights etc. etc.
Ultimately it comes down to (in my mind) if safety is not the foremost priority, then the show better be worth dieing for...
cprted said:
I would contend that serious injury sucks more than dead. If you end up quadriplegic for the rest of your life, in many cases you'd probably prefer you'd been finished off. Serious injury is in many cases a far more painful outcome than death, the quality of life for the individual affected just isn't there.
It was touched on previously. In a fall arrest harness you have just 20 minutes before you sustain permanent damage to your body after a fall. Hence the criticality of a rescue plan before you start climbing.
Yes, at times "safety" can be complete overkill. I've been told a story of an orchestra playing in an exhibition hall you had to put on hi vis to walk 10m from the door onto the stage because a forklift was operating in some far corner of the space. Yes a spotter would have been a more effective means of managing the risk in this instance - the orchestra were permitting to ditch their vests once on stage. But you know what? They all did it, stupid as it was.
Most audience would be utterly appalled if they knew someone had risked their life for a mere show. If we were in any other industry you would not even think about taking the risk.
I've seen multi million dollar fireworks displays cancelled because the weather was not right and thus it was not safe to continue. And we're talking here about displays that get beamed to television across the globe.
Most normal people will understand if you have to delay or can a show because it was unsafe not to.
That said, have we all at times, with the adrenalin of a show running done something that in hindsight was unwise? Sure. I did it a month ago. With experience you get to a point where you can do a quick and dirty risk assessment mentally in the heat of the moment and thus make decisions accordingly. To do so takes experience and an understanding of the components of the task - how they relate to physics say in the case of heights etc. etc.
Ultimately it comes down to (in my mind) if safety is not the foremost priority, then the show better be worth dieing for...
