Small Touring Sound Set-Up

S

Spectre7

Member
I am trying to put together a small set of equipment that will allow the company I am employed by to have a mobile and efficient sound set up for small bands and live sound productions. I have the sole decision in what is purchased, and this is what I had in mind. I am posting to receive input on the arrangement and equipment. Everything is up for discussion. If you think it sucks and all should be redone, say so, but also why. Though I have several years of experience in the field, I want additional input before spending the money.

Consoles
FOH - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro
Monitor - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro

Microphones
Shure SM58 (6)
Sure BETA57a (4)
Audio Technica Wireless Handhelds (4)

Processing, Effects, EQ
RANE ME-60 EQ (2)
dbx Advanced Feedback Suppressor
dbx 1074 Compressor (2)
Alesis MidiVerb Multi Effects Processor

Heads/Amplification
QSC RMX1450 (2)
QSC RMX2450 (2)

Speaker Cabinets
Yamaha S115V Full Range (6)
Yamaha S12 Monitor Wedges (4)
QSC K12 Powered (2)

Snake Line
Horizon Venue Professional
or
RamTech

CD Deck
Tascam CD-450

Power Conditioning
ETA
 
A good splitter snake could easily cost as much as your consoles and PA put together. Also, cases are going to be a must and could possibly double your budget. Mackie's don't really take to the road to well, they will need all they help they can get.

Just to throw it out there... this stuff is going to be pretty budget gear. It will work great for a traditional bar band rig. If you can afford to have a monitor engineer, I think you might want to think about investing in some better gear. That mackie console is not a monitor desk. Without a stack of graphs or a drive rack you are going to be fighting wedges with that console... it simply does not have the EQ's to do what you need to do and what bands expect.

Are you going to need to be fulfilling any riders with this rig or is it just for in house use? What size band are we talking here? With the looks of your mic package the bands would be no bigger then a 3 piece with a small kit.

My 2 c's.....
If you want to stay analog look at the Allen & Heath GL line. By far the most rider friendly small portable console out there. Not only will it make other people that use your gear happy but it also sounds much better and has great EQ's. You get a lot of bang for you buck.
Get a drive rack for monitor world.
I would also highly consider for a portable rig to go digital. It will cut down on what you have to carry and how much setup you need in each venue. However, it does have its drawbacks for on the fly mixing with no sound check or rehearsal.
Add some direct boxes for monitor world/acoustics as well as some 81's for overheads. Also, a kick mic is a necessity.
Those Yamaha speakers work but there is much better stuff out there.

Overall, its a decent bar rig. Its what just about every bar band that plays around here carries except for the ones that hire out audio. Its not the most professional rig ever. Its not going to win any awards. However, if the patrons are there more for the booze then the band it will be great. If people are paying 30 dollars a ticket to hear whatever you are putting over the PA, it might be time to double or triple the budget.

So... you just need to ask yourself if having a bar rig is what you are going for. If it is, fine. If its not, we can help... but your going to have to spend more cash.
 
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If you could give parameters about what kind of gigs this system would do that would be great - what kinds of bands and other productions, venue sizes, etc. As Footer said, that's a standard bar band rig that you've put together. I'd tweak it a little bit but before I say anything I'd like to fully understand the applications that the system will be used for.
 
Comments from a lighting guy. Take them for what they're worth.

The two most popular small system speaker boxes I see are JBL and some Nexo. Some people also use Yorkville, EV, and even Peavey. No one uses Yamaha. I never see anything but Crown amps. Either everyone loves them or they really are the best.

For boards, most people carry Midas. I don't think they are cheap, tho.

Mics, I see a lot of Shure, but some Sennheiser, too.

Of course, it depends on budget, too.
 
No matter what type of system you are building, don't use the Mackie for a monitering board, it's OK for a house board but I have recently switched out a Mackie for an A&H. I am sceptical about the mains but I will leave that to the sound experts, which I am not. I would qustion the mic package but I don't know the numbers of mics to tell you the difference. I work festivals with a sound company that has a case of mics so I know what to where by the look.
 
I'm very happy with all of the information I've received thus far, but I apologize for leaving out so many details. I'll give more explanation to what I write also.

Mic Stands
Mainly boom stands, but also several straight stands.

DIs
Whirlwind Director, if anything larger is needed I have considered a Whirlwind Direct4

Additional Mics; Drum Mics
I should've listed this, but I forgot to.
I'd like to use a 5 piece micing kit to atleast have the snare, toms, and kick drum covered. I feel like our company does not do sound at large enough events to warrant the micing of metal parts. Possible the hi-hat if anything. Shure looked like a decent choice to me, but I'd love input on that.

Cables
I felt as though these were implied, but I should've just listed them.
Neutrix Connectors on all cables
Speakon
Balanced XLR
TRS
TS

Staging
Already have access to a Wenger portable stage and the employees know how to set it up safely and correctly.

I am currently in the market for new consoles (as I find most sound guys always want a different or larger model). We already have the Mackies, but they are older and outdated. I would prefer a A&H with around 24 total channels and 20 true XLR channels. I have always been told your monitor console has to be the same as your main console? At this smaller level does that even matter?

I recognize that Crown are the standard in amplification, however QSC is the driving name in and around where I live. I have seen and used both and they are almost identically priced for the wattage. We have always used QSC and I have never had any complaints.

Yes, the Yamaha mains are crap. I truly have no idea as to what type of speakers to purchase. We use all L'Acoustic speakers in the theatre I work in, but those cost so much we could never afford them. I'd love to find a decent medium.

Thanks for all the help thus far, keep em coming.
 
soundlight said:
If you could give parameters about what kind of gigs this system would do that would be great - what kinds of bands and other productions, venue sizes, etc. . .
Click to expand...
I'd like to be able to cover events with 600 to 800 people either indoors or in a small outdoor area. As for band size, your traditional rock band or other local groups who contract my company. We want to stay versatile.
 
Consoles
FOH - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro It can work
Monitor - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro Definitely not a monitor console. You might as well just mix from FOH. Check out the Allen and Heath MixWiz Monitor console. 16 channels, 12 mixes, built in splitter

Microphones
Shure SM58 (6) The standard for a reason
Sure BETA57a (4) Save yourself the cash and stick with the SM57. I like the Beta, but on if you also have a slew of SM's.
Audio Technica Wireless Handhelds (4) Which model is this and why do you think you need wireless? I am a fan of the Sennheiser ew135.

Processing, Effects, EQ
RANE ME-60 EQ (2) I'm not familiar with this particular model, but I would try to stick with DBX on the low end, or maybe try to find a used Ashly. Some of the digital EQ's out there are pretty neat and come in at least 4 channels per unit
dbx Advanced Feedback Suppressor Why do you feel you need this?
dbx 1074 Compressor (2) Sure, if you want a compressor...
Alesis MidiVerb Multi Effects Processor Not a fan... See if you can find some low end (or used) TC Electronic or Lexicon unit

Heads/Amplification
QSC RMX1450 (2) Not a bad amplifier, but HEAVY. Try to stick to the PLX range if possible.
QSC RMX2450 (2)

Speaker Cabinets - Maybe a description of what your plan is with these... No subs?
Yamaha S115V Full Range (6)
Yamaha S12 Monitor Wedges (4)
QSC K12 Powered (2) Why powered? Why not go all powered if you're going to do it?

Snake Line
Horizon Venue Professional or RamTech You really can't beat EWI cabling (Audiopile Pro Audio  Welcome to Audiopile) on a budget.

CD Deck
Tascam CD-450 Okay, but also make sure you have an iPod cable handy.

Power Conditioning
ETA A rack mount power conditioner is not much more than a power strip with lights. But they're handy to have.
 
bishopthomas said:
Consoles
FOH - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro It can work
Monitor - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro Definitely not a monitor console. You might as well just mix from FOH. Check out the Allen and Heath MixWiz Monitor console. 16 channels, 12 mixes, built in splitter

Microphones
Shure SM58 (6) The standard for a reason
Sure BETA57a (4) Save yourself the cash and stick with the SM57. I like the Beta, but on if you also have a slew of SM's.
Audio Technica Wireless Handhelds (4) Which model is this and why do you think you need wireless? I am a fan of the Sennheiser ew135.

Processing, Effects, EQ
RANE ME-60 EQ (2) I'm not familiar with this particular model, but I would try to stick with DBX on the low end, or maybe try to find a used Ashly. Some of the digital EQ's out there are pretty neat and come in at least 4 channels per unit
dbx Advanced Feedback Suppressor Why do you feel you need this?
dbx 1074 Compressor (2) Sure, if you want a compressor...
Alesis MidiVerb Multi Effects Processor Not a fan... See if you can find some low end (or used) TC Electronic or Lexicon unit

Heads/Amplification
QSC RMX1450 (2) Not a bad amplifier, but HEAVY. Try to stick to the PLX range if possible.
QSC RMX2450 (2)

Speaker Cabinets - Maybe a description of what your plan is with these... No subs?
Yamaha S115V Full Range (6)
Yamaha S12 Monitor Wedges (4)
QSC K12 Powered (2) Why powered? Why not go all powered if you're going to do it?

Snake Line
Horizon Venue Professional or RamTech You really can't beat EWI cabling (Audiopile Pro Audio* Welcome to Audiopile) on a budget.

CD Deck
Tascam CD-450 Okay, but also make sure you have an iPod cable handy.

Power Conditioning
ETA A rack mount power conditioner is not much more than a power strip with lights. But they're handy to have.
Click to expand...

I was looking into Audio Technica 2000 or 3000 series. The reason I was prompted to use them is because of the heavy use they receive at the Grammys. I know obviously that the only reason that they are used at the Grammys has a lot to do with advertising, money, and a deal that neither group could pass up, but I've never had problems with them.

I listed the EQ incorrectly. The model is actually the Rane DEQ60L. I already own a set of these and just intended to include them in the tour rig. These retail for $700 to $800, and the theatre I also work for bought 2 shortly before switching to digital. Once they switched to digital (a few months after buying them), my boss wanted to sell the graphic EQ and made me an offer I couldn't turn down (especially considering how new and unused these are). I paid $200 each for them and I was pretty happy. I do however like the dbx EQ. Any particular model?

The purpose of the powered speakers was simply if our company was asked to do something really small. Like maybe if someone wanted a wedding DJ or something simple. In todays market, and the fact that I live in a small town, we seldom turn down business and we just wanted something simple and easy if needed.

I always have an iPod or MP3 cable ready (though I didn't mention it). Always a TRS 1/8 inch to spit TS 1/4 inch. I typically split it over 2 channels.
 
I know what you're saying about having a small SOS (speaker on stick) rig, but it might make more sense to be able to utilize all of your gear for various gigs. What I mean is, if you're only doing a SOS gig, the entire "A" rig shouldn't be sitting there making no money. You should have pulled a pair of speakers from the A rig. And vice versa, if your A rig is going out then you don't want a pair of speakers sitting around not making money. Rather than building an A rig and a B rig, build an A rig that can BECOME the B rig.

This is why we have a pile of VRX's for tops/subs and 14 JRX's for monitors. Need to fly 6 boxes per side from motors/truss? Put them in the truck. The next day we have a SOS corporate gig? The same speakers (only a pair) go to that gig. A bar band needs something we don't care about getting beer spilled on? The monitors from the first gig go on poles in the bar. It's all about being modular and maximizing profits and ROI (return on investment).
 
Isn't the VRX line in the $3k range? I haven't ever gotten a quote on them but I believe I heard that before.
 
MAP is $2149, but we're dealers so that helps a little. I wasn't suggesting buying VRX's, only giving you an example based on what we do. Whatever you buy stick to one model so that you can scale your rig as needed.
 
Spectre7 said:
I always have an iPod or MP3 cable ready (though I didn't mention it). Always a TRS 1/8 inch to spit TS 1/4 inch. I typically split it over 2 channels.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not really being split, it's just taking the L down one side and the R on the other...hence the TS (unbalanced) ends at the console...
Since it was already "split", you aren't really splitting it, more less just keeping it separate...
 
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Anonymous067 said:
Not to be rude, but given the OP's sig (website, use Google), it appears this is a DJ set up, not a touring set up.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
And what bearing does that have on the thread ? I believe, if you read the OP you would notice that he states it is for bands and audio productions < read that as DJ'ing > Since CB caters to every aspect of production and technical events I, for one, do not see how it effects anything.
 
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I would be hesitant to recommend Audio Technica mics. I've never had a major problem, but I have found them hard to find replacements for in a pinch. I recently did a show where 4 of my wireless lav mics went bad dress rehearsal night and I couldn't find anyone that carried Audiotechnica. Everyone had Shure in stock. Also the sound quality between Audiotechnica and Shure are night and day. I would stick with Shure all the way.

Like I said, there's nothing terribly wrong with the audiotechnica, its just not a favorite of mine due to availability. Check your local stores before you order so you know if you have a dealer near by.
 
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