"uh....the board isn't controlling anything"

[Cheever]

i just finished a very successful (for my company) run of Seussical Jr.

on closing night i come into the theatre to turn on everything and get ready (i was acting as well as a sort of TD for the show). we open at 7 and its now 5:30. i go into the booth and turn everything on. i turn the board to the first cue and nothing happens. thinking maybe that it was the cues that were messing up, i changed it to submaster mode and checked that. nothing happened. i checked to make sure nothing had been patched wrong. it hadn't. next i went to the back and turned off both the dimmer rack and the main power. i tried one at a time and also both at the same time. nothing happened. the board still didn't control anything.

my next step was to do a focus check directly from the dimmers backstage. it works. however i still can't control the lights from the booth. its now about 30 minutes until we open and my mood is getting worse and worse (it was my light design and i was proud of it).

normally i would run the show from the SM's panel from backstage but that had recently broken (another stroy in and of itself involving lightning and reluctant and slightly careless electricians). so i check. all we have to light the stage is white lights from electric strip lights above the stage and two followspots.

so, i told the spot guys to illuminate the stage and especially whoever was singing/ wherever the action was. then i got a stagehand to control the white lights to go out at certain times during the show. the show went great and we closed strong. and the guys who ran the spots are getting a hearty congratulations for how well they handled the show. but i'm still worried.

the equipment is about 20 years old. the dimmer packs i'm pretty sure were made in 1996, and installed in 2001. i assume the wiring was installed at the same time. the Light Desk was built in 1991, and installed in 2001. all of the lights were installed in 2001 and most of their lamps haven't been replaced but once since and some not at all. this has happened before during the last show, but turning the power off reset it and we haven't had trouble of this sort until now. any thoughts?

 

[TheDonkey]

What model console and dimmer packs?

Assuming the cables are all plugged in and working, you sure noone's been playing with the Adressing dialson your dimmer pack?

Couple weeks ago, I was waiting for some slow people strike teh stage, and I started playing around with the DMX Address knobs on our CD80 24 Pack, and I left the knobs to 0 0 0, which in turn disabled DMX altogether.

When I actually needed the lights, took me 10 minutes to figure out what I did.

 

[avkid]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Either get a really long DMX cable and hook it up directly to a dimmer, or get something that you can control with DMX and bring it to the controller.

If it works, you know your cabling is bad.

 

[waynehoskins]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Did you check to see if the control line was plugged in on both sides?

Alternatively, what about the DBO switch, softpatch, output patch?

 

[renegadeblack]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

I've had this happen to me before. I normally just have to turn the board off and on and then it works again. I have a Colortran Innovator 48/96. What does OP have?

 

[Cheever]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

we had done a show about 11 that morning. and it worked fine. and i checked before i left to get food and everything was fine. the closet that holds all of the power stuff (breakers and packs) was locked.

i'm not sure what model they are. i'll check tomorrow. but you mention bad cables and that could be the problem.

 

[theatretechguy]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Board issue? (I'm sure you checked the Grand Master, Release (ETC) and Blackout button?) Check your DMX cables (as others have mentioned). Does your DMX pass thru a distribution or adapter of any kind? (AMX to DMX conversion, splitter, etc). Make sure that all accessories are plugged in and working.

 

[venuetech]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

is there any sort of delegation switch that might have goten switched?

in my space you can move the control input from foh to backstage with the click of the "take control" switch located on a pannel near the position.

this only allows for only one control board to input to the dimmers.

you may have something like that

 

[TimOlson]

Cheever - there's a great little DMX tester. many make them, here's the Doug Fleanor one: Doug Fleenor Design - DMX512 Line Tester

you can make them yourself too. I keep one in my gig bag at all times. this little gadget makes tracking down bad wires a snap. if the DMX signal is good, both LED's will flash rapidly. start at the back of the console, and follow the cable path.

peace, Tim O

 

[TheDonkey]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

is there any sort of delegation switch that might have goten switched?

in my space you can move the control input from foh to backstage with the click of the "take control" switch located on a pannel near the position.

this only allows for only one control board to input to the dimmers.

you may have something like that

Could you possibly find a model number for a switch of that type?

Our school is in DIRE need of renovation, and they may either demolish it or do a full upgrade, being the most knowledgeable/passionate student techie in the school(I'm on CB after all!) I would love to put in a suggestion for a second backstage board and a switch like this.

 

[waynehoskins]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Could you possibly find a model number for a switch of that type?

Our school is in DIRE need of renovation, and they may either demolish it or do a full upgrade, being the most knowledgeable/passionate student techie in the school(I'm on CB after all!) I would love to put in a suggestion for a second backstage board and a switch like this.

I might instead go with a "backup board" option, like a Strand 100 that will loop DMX from your real board through it, but also allow fallover or simple control from there. In your case it may or may not be better, but it's another option. Alternatively, some racks allow for multiple control (DMX often) inputs -- Sensor comes to mind, if I recall right -- that would let you have a real and a simple board.

The theatre in college had DMX inputs both on stage and in the booth. We never tried to use them at the same time; they could have simply been paralleled at the rack. But even that sure was handy: for directing scenes and sometimes for focus we'd set up the board on stage, and in performance it was in the booth.

In fact, I might argue against a delegation switch: it's another thing to get pushed the wrong way at the wrong time. I suppose, though, a decent way to do it is what came with an old Mantrix 2 that I picked up on Ebay. It came from Va Tech at some time, and has a custom module on it with a Take Control button and a Give Control button, wired discretely to a connector on that module's rear apron. This presumably would have been used to throw latching relays in the control line at the rack. This arrangement means that only the board op could transfer control away from the board, which is probably a good thing.

 

[TheDonkey]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Actually as I was typing up the switch question, the Strand 100 came to mind for what the backup board would be.

Our CD80 24 Channel 2.4 Pack probably isn't in the budget for upgrading, so no Dual input option there,

But yeah, they had a bunch of building inspectors walking around today so looks like they're FINALLY getting to work on the new building, I'm sure I'll graduate by then, but I'll see what influence I can make on the awesome-ification of the new theater. (For starters, getting a Real, glass booth, the raised platform is nice and all, but a closed in booth with Stage mics is soo much better.

/Treadjack.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

...Alternatively, some racks allow for multiple control (DMX often) inputs -- Sensor comes to mind, if I recall right -- that would let you have a real and a simple board. ...

Yes, Sensor racks have a port A and port B DMX input. A better alternative to a switch is likely a DMX merger, which works on an HTP basis. But moving forward, all new lighting control systems will be networked, with nodes providing input/output anywhere on the network.

 

[avkid]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

(For starters, getting a Real, glass booth, the raised platform is nice and all, but a closed in booth with Stage mics is soo much better.

Go tell the sound people that, then duck and run.

 

[TheDonkey]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Go tell the sound people that, then duck and run.

What sound people?

Although this is probably pushing into my kind of the booth complex again, as I haven't dealt with any sound based performances yet,

AFAIK, I'm the "Sound person" in the school as well, so far I've been the only one that's noticed and EQ corrected the excessive High's or Low's that occur when people start plugging iPod's in.

Warning: Threadjack/Life Story coming up

When I was 6, I was first introduced to a computer, been addicted since.

Every couple months I'd put on little theatrical shows which were nothing more than sumersaults on my bed, but I got blankets hung and rigged up as curtains, lamps set up to not show shadows too much, etc etc.

Somewhere between there and when I was 12, I also discovered electronics, and got into that sort of thing too.

When I was around 12, I discovered a little program called Virtual DJ, got hooked on it, in turn learned how to beatmatch and properly EQ a piece of music, I've yet to buy the turntables I hope to someday own.

Got to highschool, discovered stagecraft, and here I am, The moment I saw our theater lighting board, noted the model down, got home, found the manual(and CB) spent an hour reading over all the intricacies of programming it.

Life story in a nutshell.

P.S. I'm 15

/Ultra Threadjack.
(I'm so going to copy this into my profile Bio.)

 

[Eboy87]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Go tell the sound people that, then duck and run.

No kidding, the booth I have to mix from this week is like mixing from a pillbox on the coast of Normandy. And the dimmers are behind me, so there's the lovely sound of blowing air to mask anything.

/hijack

 

[TheDonkey]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

No kidding, the booth I have to mix from this week is like mixing from a pillbox on the coast of Normandy. And the dimmers are behind me, so there's the lovely sound of blowing air to mask anything.

/hijack

At my old school, we had a glass double booth, with lighting on one side and a stage speaker, then a wall/door that led into the audio/follow spot half with no windows. So yeah, that's more what I meant with a cased in booth.

 

[leistico]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Trust me, the best mix position for audio is a slightly raised platform dead center in the middle of the house. I just got through mixing a production of "Jekyll & Hyde", and there's no way possible I could have done it from our booth. I dragged the cables down, set up a "booth" and dressed it up as pretty as I could, rear house left. If I couldn't hear *exactly* what the audience was hearing, there's no way I could have ran a 4-mic off-stage orchestra, 18 wireless lav mics and bed-track sound effects on computer and cd, and no SM calling cues in my ear--just me and my script.

Once lights are set and programmed, barring accidents it's "go...go...go...go..." A live sound engineer, however, is a performing artist in his/her own right.

 

[venuetech]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

Could you possibly find a model number for a switch of that type?

Our school is in DIRE need of renovation, and they may either demolish it or do a full upgrade, being the most knowledgeable/passionate student techie in the school(I'm on CB after all!) I would love to put in a suggestion for a second backstage board and a switch like this.

its 25 year old technology that has been made obsolete by the modern show control networks.
If your facility is going to be renovated what you must have is a team of consultants (lighting, sound, acoustical, stage) without consultants you will end up with whatever the architect dreams up. and whatever the contractor can get away with.

a good team of consultants is critical to any renovation or new construction.

if you made that suggestion to the architect he would smile, nod, make a note. then put the thing upstage center on the wall about 3" away from the cyc.

Make that sugestion to the counsultant he will note it, ask if any other control points might be of use, and he will make sure you get a wireless remote focus unit.

 

[Cheever]

Re: %26quot%3Buh....the board isn't controlling anything%26quot%3B

well, i got in there on monday morning and checked everything. IT WORKED!

i'm happy and angry at the same time. is it possible the cables were overworked? they've been installed for about 8 years now. i love it that it works, but i really want to know what was wrong so i can fix it.