Fixing Multi-cable

[derekleffew]

That even scares me, and that's saying something...

Yes. I don't see even a single safety cable holding the PAR Bar to the truss.

Though limited in budget, educational institutions need to be even more safe than the professionals.

Dustin, we want to help you, and I think have offered all the suggestions we can.

 

[TimMiller]

One way to go is mount the stage pin connectors in a box, and hard wire the cable to the box. Like an audio snake. Of course use proper strain reliefs. I know those strain reliefs get extremely expensive very quickly. I bought about 6 HUBBLE 2" strain reliefs and it ran me around 300. I had to strain relieve some 18/24 or something like that. Big cable, thin wires. It was for 24V motor control.

 

[Dustincoc]

Good news people, I talked to the director of the department today as we finalized the employment stuff and he said that within reason, I can get what I need to meet code, we have several thousand if need be.

Now, I need to know what options I have as far as meeting code for the ends of the cable. I know I can use Socapex connectors or some type of box. Any other options? I want to avoid using Socapex because of the complexitys in installing it and the high cost for each connector as well as the breakouts. I need the ends to be as small as possible, the end of at least two of the cable ends need to fit in 2" gaps infront of the sliding glass doors in our booth.

 

[Dustincoc]

The pertinent wording is the requirement for listed, extra hard usage cables.

Editorial from ST:

A. Without their jacket stripped back to expose the inner conductors, like your rig.

B. See table 400.5 for cable types that are extra hard usage.

ST

I just checked and It's table 400.4 and type SO which is the type of the one I'm working on now, is listed as extra hard usage.

 

[icewolf08]

Good news people, I talked to the director of the department today as we finalized the employment stuff and he said that within reason, I can get what I need to meet code, we have several thousand if need be.

Now, I need to know what options I have as far as meeting code for the ends of the cable. I know I can use Socapex connectors or some type of box. Any other options? I want to avoid using Socapex because of the complexitys in installing it and the high cost for each connector as well as the breakouts. I need the ends to be as small as possible, the end of at least two of the cable ends need to fit in 2" gaps infront of the sliding glass doors in our booth.

Really, in terms of price, it shouldn't be that much more expensive to install Socapex on the cable ends than any other solution, and that is by far the most compact solution. Yeah, it is a PITA to install, you really need two people, but it will be the safest and probably most useful.

 

[Dustincoc]

Does anyone know where I can get Socapex connectors then(I'm in the Northeast US)? The only once I find for sale online are in Europe.

Really, in terms of price, it shouldn't be that much more expensive to install Socapex on the cable ends than any other solution, and that is by far the most compact solution. Yeah, it is a PITA to install, you really need two people, but it will be the safest and probably most useful.

The reason I thought it would be more expensive is because I would need 2 Socapex connectors for the cable ends and 2 more for the breakouts. Specifically, I'm looking ar the 419AR model.

 

[icewolf08]

Does anyone know where I can get Socapex connectors then?

Any theatre supplier should be able to get them for you. I would also recommend just buying pre-built break in/out's.

Call people like BMI, Production Advantage, or Barbizon if your local dealer can't get them for you or if you don't have a local dealer.

 

[Dustincoc]

What kind of prices am I looking at? We normally deal with BMI although I prefer Production Advantage. Production Advantage is the only one that even lists any seperate connectors and all they have on their website is a panel mount female for $40. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out about what it is going to cost. If I can get them for about that cost, that would probable work out alright.

 

[icewolf08]

What kind of prices am I looking at? We normally deal with BMI although I prefer Production Advantage. Production Advantage is the only one that even lists any seperate connectors and all they have on their website is a panel mount female for $40. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out about what it is going to cost. If I can get them for about that cost, that would probable work out alright.

$40-$50 is probably the ballpark for the connectors, it will probably be around $100 for a pre-built break in/out. Now, you should pick up the phone and call Production Advantage or BMI. Production Advantage only just launched their online sales recently, and neither company has everything they carry or can get on their website. Plus, if you are going to be ordering a good number of connectors, you may get a price break, but you won't know unless you talk to a real person.

Also, depending on how many connectors you need, and the approximate value of them it may be beneficial to have a chat with the purchasing department at your school and putting the order out for bid. Very often, when companies know that they are competing for your money they will give better prices.

 

[Dustincoc]

Also, depending on how many connectors you need, and the approximate value of them it may be beneficial to have a chat with the purchasing department at your school and putting the order out for bid. Very often, when companies know that they are competing for your money they will give better prices.

For most things, the individual department do the ordering. I don't think there is an actual purchasing department.

I am trying to keep the school(as in anything above the department) out of it as much as possible. They tend to freak out about things a bit. We are having some major renovations in the next year and one of the engineers made a slight remark about the grating running the wrong way. We even called them and they couldn't remember saying anything about it to the school. Next thing we know, they close off the catwalks at 3pm on a Friday after we had hung all our lights up there but not focused them for a show the next weekend. The school offices have half days on fridays so it was next to impossible to get anyone and when we do, they can't tell us what is wrong with the catwalks. First they tell us its the grating, then they tell us it needs more weld points to the structure. The next week we found out it actually was the grating. We are told that it will be at least several weeks before they can get anyone in to look at or even fix them. The catwalks had been there for over 20 years we had 0 issues with them other than a maybe 1/4" flex in them. I wasn't taking the multicable issue out of the departmant before and I'm not now, I don't want the headache of dealing with the school any more than I have too. The school even charges the department for maintaining the school owned building we ocuppy.

Don't go telling me that even though it lasted that long, it still was unsafe. I know thay it may have been slightly non-enginneering spec, but we were planning on having them torn out in the renovation and they are being left in know because of budget concerns(although we have an extra $400,000).

This same architectural firm is giving our theatre big clear glass windows (with curtains) and a blonde wood procenium.

 

[TimMiller]

I'd take the money for the stupid window and apply it to more pratical things. It would never be open and you would have a constant problem of light leaking through.

 

[Dustincoc]

I'd take the money for the stupid window and apply it to more pratical things. It would never be open and you would have a constant problem of light leaking through.

The window opening and windows are already in the building, they have just been covered with luan for eternity. They will probably just replace the windows. It seems like what one of the teachers did a couple of years ago. Ho took the luan off of the window in the prop-room(Backstage) to make it look less like an abondoned building and was going to hang curtains, never got around to it and then just painted the window black to stop light coming in.

 

[derekleffew]

$40-$50 is probably the ballpark for the connectors, it will probably be around $100 for a pre-built break in/out. Now, you should pick up the phone and call Production Advantage or BMI. Production Advantage only just launched their online sales recently, and neither company has everything they carry or can get on their website. Plus, if you are going to be ordering a good number of connectors, you may get a price break, but you won't know unless you talk to a real person.

Also, depending on how many connectors you need, and the approximate value of them it may be beneficial to have a chat with the purchasing department at your school and putting the order out for bid. Very often, when companies know that they are competing for your money they will give better prices.

Dustin, you also want crimp, not solder connectors, for a variety of reasons. ship has detailed some of them here.

Also most find other brands easier to assemble than Amphenol/Socapex Brand. Here is the brand I would buy if it were me, as well as the PDF. Be aware that not all are created equal, and some of the knock-offs (generic Asian imports) are pure garbage. If you have a local friendly lighting house, you may be able to rent/borrow the crimping tools from them, especially if you purchase the connectors and breakouts from them.

So what are your plans for conductors #15 & 16?

 

[Dustincoc]

For a 5 circuit cable, I would be using 15 wires, so I'd connect just clip off the 16th wire. Most of the multicable is 6 circuit so I'd wire it the way the instructions say. We don't really have a local supply house, we either order from New York(BMI) or Chicago(for muslin). How much do the crimping tools cost? Are the screw/crimp variety(the connections in 2p&G connectors) of connectors availeable?

 

[derekleffew]

There is nothing wrong at all with using your 12/16 cable to provide 6 circuits and tieing #13 & 14 to pins 13-18.

I know I recently posted this, but it must have been in another thread. 12/14 cable is actually more popular than 12/18 cable for use with Socapex-style connectors, which is why manufacturers sell these,

to gang all the grounds together. (From this pdf.)

So tell your money people, you'll actually be gaining one circuit per multi at no extra cost. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would make/see your break-ins/-outs with only 5 circuits. Also consider "staggered" as opposed to "even" break-outs. Much more handy in almost every case, and saves jumpers.

 

[STEVETERRY]

There is nothing wrong at all with using your 12/16 cable to provide 6 circuits and tieing #13 & 14 to pins 13-18.

I know I recently posted this, but it must have been in another thread. 12/14 cable is actually more popular than 12/18 cable for use with Socapex-style connectors, which is why manufacturers sell these,

to gang all the grounds together. (From this pdf.)

So tell your money people, you'll actually be gaining one circuit per multi at no extra cost. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would make/see your break-ins/-outs with only 5 circuits. Also consider "staggered" as opposed to "even" break-outs. Much more handy in almost every case, and saves jumpers.

Err...careful here. If it is 60 degree C Type SO, I would not add that circuit.

If it's 90 degrees C, probably OK.

Note that typical 12/14 6 circuit multicable like TMB Procable and others is 105 degrees C.


ST

 

[derekleffew]

Err...careful here. If it is 60 degree C Type SO, I would not add that circuit.

If it's 90 degrees C, probably OK.

Note that typical 12/14 6 circuit multicable like TMB Procable and others is 105 degrees C.


ST

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we so much appreciate having Mr. Terry as a member.

I can't wait to read the jacket on some 12/14 at work tomorrow. They'd have a cow if I started lopping of ends, claiming it non Code-Compliant!

Now, Steve, about the Martingale and Halogen Cycle...

 

[Dustincoc]

Err...careful here. If it is 60 degree C Type SO, I would not add that circuit.

If it's 90 degrees C, probably OK.

Note that typical 12/14 6 circuit multicable like TMB Procable and others is 105 degrees C.


ST

How can you tell what type of SO cable it is?

I just got an e-mail back from Veam/BMI and that BMI has available are solder connectors.

I can't wait to read the jacket on some 12/14 at work tomorrow. They'd have a cow if I started lopping of ends, claiming it non Code-Compliant!

I'd love to stop lopping end of non-complient cable, I just don't have any cable-cutters that will cut through the multi. It's the only cable that's even given my cable cutters a hard time.

How hard is it to make breakouts, since money is the main concern as well as safety, and my time is cheap, It would probably be more economical for me to make the breakouts. We already have tons of 12/3 cable as well as many, many loose stagepin connectors.

 

[icewolf08]

Making break ins/outs is a PITA. The other thing that you need to know if you are going to do it yourself is that the connectors for the ins/outs are different. They have a different strain relief that accommodates the multiple pieces of cable as opposed to the connectors that go on the multi which have a strain relief designed to accommodate the multi. So, you need to make sure that you order the proper connectors.

 

[TimMiller]

Check out CBI and e-bay, there are several companies that give you really good deals on break outs. I wont make break outs but i'll solder soco connectors all day long. Also you need to be sure your ontop of your soldering skills when making soco connectors. you dont want a connection to fail on you.