Lighting Fixtures

[Cooperhodges]

Hello everyone,

I've got quite a predicament. I work for a christian university, and new to the university this year they have implemented a new university wide worship program. They want some kind of lighting done, however they don't really have too big of a budget to do this with. The other issues that the sanctuary that this will be happening and has little to no power available. The only way we could get the sanctuary looking really good is to use LEDs, however those are way too expensive for our budget. I'm wondering if anybody knows about a low-cost high-quality light that would do well in an environment like this. I have worked instinctively with ETCs source four series, however this may be too expensive. I've heard decent reviews about Chauvet lights, but I've never actually used them. As far as controlling the lights goes, these would merely be static, and wouldn't need to be controlled via DMX. In the future, however, we may buy a lighting console, but for now only need to stay static lights. The other problem is that there is no where to really hang lights, so they would need to be hung from lighting trees or put along the bases of walls and pointed up. Any suggestions?

Here's a picture of our sanctuary: http://karlsdailyphotoscapes.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dp-199.jpg?w=914&h=620

You can't see it in this picture, but in the rear of the sanctuary is a balcony, which we could put light trees on but nothing more, because there isn't anywhere to clamp but the wood railing. Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[chausman]

In your picture, there are a few fixtures with barn doors. What are they hanging on?

A Source 4 Jr. might be more in your price range. Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC

 

[Cooperhodges]

They had special mounts made. Our church does television production of every sermon, so those are T.V. lights for the cameras.

 

[Grog12]

So when you say they want "lighting done" what exactly do you mean?

Are you reinforcing pagent plays? the choir? Just the sermon?

 

[Cooperhodges]

These programs happen every friday. Basically song service, scripture, maybe a skit, and then sermon. We've been using the house lighting for the stage, but i'd like to get in some color in the audience or on the praise team during their set. Sorry I wasn't more specific.

 

[Grog12]

And currently you have no form of lighting control I assume? No board no dimmers no nothing?

Whats your budget on the whole project?

Sorry just reread the OP...the problem being of course that without some form of control surface you're not really making it so you can "do lighting" for all the things you mention.

 

[Cooperhodges]

No dimming, no console. I was thinking of getting a few D4DMX Dimmer Packs for control. We have a couple thousand to spend, I'd imagine. No definite number as of yet.

 

[lwinters630]

I love the concept of miracles . . . . 0 budget $10k plus worth of Lighting. I have been in Worship Lighting for 30+ years, there are several questions to ask. What is the purpose that they want lighting, color/mood, visibility, music enhancement? I see a large video set up in your picture, do you broadcast, record or just use for Imag on the screens?

All of these answers will lead you down different choices. First if you are limited on power, then LED fixtures will solve that. Many designers are not even specifying dimmer racks any more.

If it is for mood and music Consider something like Elation LED pars $500-600ea. I am using 24 to 28 of them (including zooms) in each of three venues. They can be floor mounted or on trees. BUT, light is a reflected value, what are you going to shine it on?
If it is for visibility especially for camera, add some back light at a high angle 55-60 deg. and front light at 45 deg. ETC just introduced LED source 4's.

Lights can be mounted on your ceiling beams, however watch the spill on the screens.

Consider buying a used ETC express console about $2,000. For this size venue it is volunteer friendly and will take you a long way into the future. Other boards may be cheap but not user friendly.

Lastly, be forward thinking. Putting in something to "just get by" usually is throwing money away. Start with specific goals on why you are lighting, who will be doing the lighting, and where do you see this growing.

 

[Cooperhodges]

Yeah, this isn't going to happen immediately, but people in administration want an estimate of what I'll need.

Our church has a full fledged video broadcast, with online streaming, archiving, 6 cameras, video switchers, ect. We produce our services for broadcast on television. We currently have a Yamaha M7CL sound console for house sound, with around 50 inputs, not to mention the amps, recording bays, not even mentioning the entirely separate live recording booth we have for radio/television audio recording. All of this adds up and we don't have much power to spare. I've had experience with Selador D60's and I love the concept of LED's. However, our problem is mainly budget. We have an ETC SmartFade that could be used, but won't need to be if we can't find decent lights and dimming system. I've seen ETC's Source 4 LED's, hoping to get a few of those in the future. There's currently no space to mount lights on those ceiling beams, not to mention that we'd have to get a Genie lift in to do it, which creates issues because of the University's liability policies.

We want to light primarily for mood/color and music enhancement. I've done a lot of productions for these kinds of programs before, but it was in a venue with ETC's Sensor Dimming Bay, outfitted with Socapex capability across the venue. Switching to the church has created a lot of problems, mainly being equipment and budget, because this is a completely new program(the first of which was last Friday).

I don't know if it's visible from the picture, but the cameras in the house are on top of a custom-built stand for the camera and operator. Someone mentioned maybe making two or three of those, putting a cross(vertically) on them and lighting them so that their shadows would be cast on the wall.

 

[lwinters630]

No dimming, no console. I was thinking of getting a few D4DMX Dimmer Packs for control. We have a couple thousand to spend, I'd imagine. No definite number as of yet.

The D4DMX are fine, I have them in one of the venues. Each one will require a separate 20A circuit. You will still need a control board for the DMX.

Consider an LED Par fixture set on the stage floor for up light. Hang fabric and up light that. Shining them at the audience could be distracting. If you want the LEDs can be preset to a color for the whole night. you could add a control board later.

 

[lwinters630]

If you have the ETC Smart Fade thenyou can control the dmx. Check out the Elation opti 30 They are about $300. Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products

 

[MNicolai]

Proceed cautiously. LED's look very different on camera than to the naked eye, especially in the sub-$1400-per-fixture market. What may look like a great idea in person you may find to be completely unusable whenever the cameras are rolling. If you're total budget is a couple thousand, then stick with incandescent since you will not be able to afford enough money on an LED system that would truly be useful for your applications.

 

[Aman121]

There are cheapo LED lighting packages out there but as mentioned they often wont look good on camera. If I was you, I would try to get a load of used par cans, mount them on trees with shoebox dimmers, and run them with a simple 2 scene preset. The only drawback is power, but I bet there's room to install additional 20 amp circuits or budget power from some where else. 3 20 amp circuits each with a 20 amp 4 channel shoe box dimmer will give you 12 500watt channels to play with. Load those up with some pars and maybe some S4s or Altman 360s and your good to go for a while. Going LED on a limited budget such as yours will just cause you to replace everything in a few years when better, cheaper fixtures are available. Might as well solve the problem with relatively future proof incandescents and let the prices on LED S4s and other toys to come down to a reachable level.

 

[Synchronize]

Wouldn't we all love a few of the Source 4 LEDs? They are selling for well over $1000 a piece, and with limited quantities, prices aren't shrinking any time soon. Here's the thing with LEDs, specifically cost-effective LEDs. They are great for super saturated colors and can be really great for that application. The LEDs that will allow you to make more subtle colors, whites, quality ambers, etc. are something like ETC's Selador series and, again, will run thousands for a handful. I would strongly recommend you look at brands such as Elation and Blizzard lighting. They offer products that are both cost effective and practical. I just outfited a church in South Dakota with a bunch of Blizzard Puck Q12As and Rocklite RGBAWs for a new mobile broadcast venue they just opened. They absolutely love them. Now, they were aiming for a contemporary look with lots of color and a rock 'n roll feel (image attached). From the feel of your sanctuary, you might be looking for a more reserved, classic look. Which brings us full circle, budget LEDs are great for color, not so great for subtlety.

 

[Cooperhodges]

I haven't had experience with anything except ETC- are Elations generally reliable? I've heard they're not good for long-term.

I've thought about getting power from other places in the church, but it'd require a lot of cable, and to do that every Friday night would be a real hassle. I really like the idea about the cans, though. We have around 30 floating around on campus and I really wanted to avoid using them because they're pretty flimsy, but at this point it might be a good option. I can get 300W bulbs for those as well to try and save power. Sounds like D4DMX is my best option. I've actually used the D4DMX with our SmartFade before, and worked out fine.

I actually hadn't thought about the issues with the cams. Thanks for pointing that out.


Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Aman121]

Saving power is good, especially if you have a surplus of cans. If you get the D4DMX, you could theoretically run 2 300w pars on each channel for 2400watts total, but this would only work if you have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the pack. If you dont have dedicated circuits, you could run 1 300w par on each channel for 1200w total and still run up to 1200 watts of other equipment on the circuit. Be careful when running audio on the same circuits as dimmers though, generally shoeboxes aren't exactly silent and you would almost certainly hear a buzz in your system.

 

[techieman33]

Elation is ok quality wise. I wouldn't hesitate to buy elation LED pars or the like. I would be a lot more careful about buying their moving lights without a lot of long term reviews though. Yeah the lights aren't going to compare to a selador, but your not paying selador prices either.

 

[silicsound]

I haven't had experience with anything except ETC- are Elations generally reliable? I've heard they're not good for long-term.

I found this on tumblr yesterday, it seems their moving lights have a bit of a rusting problem. We got a pair of elation movers a month ago, they feel like they could handle a fair amount of physical abuse. As far as their PARs go, I haven't heard any complaints about them, and I hear that their color mixing isn't bad.

 

[soundlight]

The newer Elation stuff is pretty awesome. I'd recommend the EPAR series, we had all 4 of them (Tri, QA, QW) in for demo recently and they're really nice fixtures for the money. The Quads (QA recommended, the amber is a great addition) are around $500 each, which is a great price for these very punchy fixtures. You could easily control LED PARs with a Smartfade - just set the EPAR QAs in to 4-channel mode and you've got red, green, blue, and amber faders!

 

[TimMiller]

Most newer fixtures are made from aluminum theirs is steel, thus the rusting problem. I have some Martin Foggers that are having the same rusting problems. I used to be in the same kind of situation with a church wanting some accent lights, no place to hang, and no power. Our solution was to use 6 trackspots. The have low power consumption multiple colors and Gobos.
Also another thing you could do is up light the pillars with an led or par 38 gelled if there are any electrical outlets nearby.