Mirror Balls – 20" vs 24"

[Les]

Hi all,

It seems like mirror ball usage at my theatre is common enough to justify buying a new mirror ball, and I want to go as big as I can reasonably afford. The main thing I have noticed is the huge jump in price from 20" to 24".

For example, I can pick up an American DJ M2020 for around $89. Of course it's ADJ and I read a few Amazon reviews that mentioned mirrors falling off (especially during shipping), but over all it sounds like a decent product and most of the reviews are positive. Apparently has a plastic core and I'm not sure about the tile size.

But then there's this ball, made by Omnisistem, which is $329 for 24". It's the cheapest 24-incher I could find. It seems to have some extra safety features, has 1/2" tiles, and the description mentions a fiberglass core which sounds like it'd be better, but is it worth the extra cost? I am assuming the jump in price is less about the additional 4" and more about the difference in construction and quality [big assumption since their 20" version is $109 and moving up to 30" costs over a grand].

I like the idea of knowing I got a quality mirror ball (assuming Omnisistem is quality - their website calls them a wholesaler; and keeping in mind the implications of overhead rigging), but I also like only spending $89 something.

Which would you go for on a budget?

 

[josh88]

Been awhile since I bought a mirror ball, but the last one I had was ADJ and the couple we keep in stock where I'm at now are ADJ and we certainly don't do anything to protect them. (Or the beat up cardboard box they came in) and they've held up fine. You could argue bigger is better, or settle for a little smaller and cheaper and if a mirror falls off you can glue it back on.

tldr: I've got some experience with ADJ mirror balls and they don't completely suck.

 

[seanandkate]

I've also got a couple ADJ mirror balls that I use, and they've held up fine under light use and boxed storage for 10+ years. A couple tiles have fallen off, but as Josh mentioned, glue is cheap. Haven't used one as big as 24" -- would you really see $240 worth of difference?

 

[RonHebbard]

I've also got a couple ADJ mirror balls that I use, and they've held up fine under light use and boxed storage for 10+ years. A couple tiles have fallen off, but as Josh mentioned, glue is cheap. Haven't used one as big as 24" -- would you really see $240 worth of difference?

@Les What I ALWAYS found significantly important with mirror balls was how many fixtures you were hitting the ball with and from how many angles. For example: If you hang a mirror ball in the center of a fly pipe and cross light it with two fixtures from the opposite ends of its own pipe and in two contrasting colors the effect is MUCH more interesting than hitting it with a single fixture from the front. For talks sake, if you hit the mirror ball with amber from one side and green from the other, on one side of the stage the amber reflections will be travelling faster / overtaking the green images while, simultaneously, on the opposite side the opposite effect is true with the green reflections moving faster than the amber.
Choose fixture beam spreads to work with your throw distances so you don't have to shutter or iris your fixtures reducing their intensities. Try to have he bulk of the beam covering all of he mirror ball with as little waste as possible.
Try to have the shadow of the ball fall off stage out of sight lines in the opposite wing. ALWAYS cover ALL of the ball NEVER shutter in off the extremes. Of course, try your own contrasting colors. In the days of 8" lekos, I used to do mirror balls with a pair of Century 8 x 11's and a pair of those stupidly large 8" color wheels. In the 1960's, that passed for mesmerizing. Oooh!!! Begin with a single plain white fixture from FOH, then add two cross-fired side lights in constantly changing colors to really blow their little minds. O.K. O.K. I'll admit the fifties and sixties were . . . different.
One light and / or one color per mirror ball? BORING!!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Les]

@seanandkate - that was my thought as well. To compare to audiophiles, when you spend $600 on speaker wire, you will hear the difference!!! [imagined or otherwise]. 20" is probably plenty big enough for our space. To give a little perspective on why I'm concerned about physical size, it's because we have a semi-thrust and the grid where the mirror ball is hung 90% of the time it is used is in full view of the audience (picture for reference). I have a couple of smaller mirror balls for shows that call for the effect but don't necessarily need one 'loud-n-proud, but sometimes we are looking for that centerpiece. But I could think of better ways to spend $240 than a marginal jump in mirror ball sizing. If it was a $50 difference, that would be a different story.

Apparently ADJ does make the M-4040, which is around $800.

@RonHebbard - Good point with lighting the mirror ball being a bigger factor. In many productions just needing that classic effect, we'll just use a pair of pinspots (or S4's if available), but I have also used our Elation Design Spots to light one on occasion. When they're irised in real tight, it's an incredible effect. Rotating gobos can add an interesting 'flicker' effect that warrants a little more experimentation. Split colors from the lights themselves is also effective in my experience.

It's probably also about time I invest in a DMX motor.

 

[JohnD]

Topic swerve, additional mirror ball stuff.
Has anyone ever come across the much more expensive Mirror Shower?

There was a discussion at Blue Room about using mirror balls spinning horizontally (sometimes using the rotisserie gadget from a grill) to give a falling snow effect.
I remember seeing a play once in which a character wore a suit of lights (not the bullfighters version) but in this case wore a cape which when opened had lots of small mirrors added. If budget had allowed they would have probably used the round sew on mirrors, but instead they glued on some shards of broken discount store mirrors. Ouch! They hit it with their new carbon arc troupers, wonderful effect, like fireflys dancing about the auditorium. It may have been one of the few times they used the troupers. Meanwhile at the other end of the building the concert hall which was larger and much longer throw they had to make do with all the old lighting equipment which had been dumped in a pasture. They had two Altman incandescent followspots and a wonderful Kliegl Dynabeam.

 

[RonHebbard]

Topic swerve, additional mirror ball stuff.
Has anyone ever come across the much more expensive Mirror Shower?
View attachment 15257
There was a discussion at Blue Room about using mirror balls spinning horizontally (sometimes using the rotisserie gadget from a grill) to give a falling snow effect.
I remember seeing a play once in which a character wore a suit of lights (not the bullfighters version) but in this case wore a cape which when opened had lots of small mirrors added. If budget had allowed they would have probably used the round sew on mirrors, but instead they glued on some shards of broken discount store mirrors. Ouch! They hit it with their new carbon arc troupers, wonderful effect, like fire-flies dancing about the auditorium. It may have been one of the few times they used the troupers. Meanwhile at the other end of the building the concert hall which was larger and much longer throw they had to make do with all the old lighting equipment which had been dumped in a pasture. They had two Altman incandescent follow-spots and a wonderful Kliegl Dynabeam.

@JohnD When you write of "mirror balls spinning horizontally (sometimes using the rotisserie gadget from a grill) to give a falling snow effect." you're reminding me of when the Red Chinese Army used to tour across Canada with a few of their shows and ballets. Their government had them paired almost one to one with chaperones / interpreters / armed guards to prevent any of them from 'leaping ship' as it were.
I'm recalling two things in particular:
1; Mostly their designers were working with house rigs and our IA operators but they had a fellow touring with a small pack of approximately two dozen dimmers and non-dims handling special effects and a very limited amount of pyro.
Hands down, his best effect piece was a small, variable speed, rotisserie effect, a total, one-off, hand made unit that did hands down the best snow effect any of us had ever seen. It created any thing from gently falling snow to a full bore storm along with everything in between. The portion that rotated was about two and a half feet long and bizarrely shaped with differing diameters along its length. The operator manipulated anywhere between one and four intense fixtures on the strange rotating contraption. It was as interesting to watch the man "perform" his storm as it was to observe his results.
2; Somewhere along their tour, the fellow needed the feeders extended for his 120 / 208 Volt 3 phase 5 wire rig and someone had extended his feeders with five lengths of #2 stranded copper TW ALL GREEN in color.
His dimmers and non-dims. His multi-conductor. A large mess of black electrical tape and five unidentified runs of #2 GREEN stranded copper TW. It fell to me to do his tie-in. I asked, through his interpreter, for his ground conductor and was instantly handed one of the five green conductors. I asked if he was absolutely sure this was his ground as, so far as I could see, there were no visible distinctions between any of the five GREEN extensions.
He watched as I tied in his ground.
Next I asked for his neutral and, without pause, he handed me another of his five GREEN extensions.
He watched as I tied in his neutral.
His three phases followed and I dutifully tied him into our handiest 100 Amp 120 / 208 Volt splitter trough and secured his bundle with a generous portion of tie line.
I closed the trough, stepped aside, and turned on the breaker.
The fellow tested his gear and everybody nodded and bowed.
I recall them coming through at least twice and they were always matched pretty much one for one by government provided armed "interpreters".
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Les]

All this talk about falling snow (or rain) is giving me some ideas.

This is a store-bought 24" one for $34.95 on eBay. I imagine such a thing could be turned horizontal in a specially-designed frame, spun with a variable speed gear motor, and hit with a shuttered ellipsoidal (or a few pinspots). I'll bet you could create some very nice effects with it. You could probably even DIY the mirror column to suit your needs, since mirror tiles (or adhesive strips of them) are readily available and PVC pipe is cheap. Build a little cage for it and you're off to the races (in theory).

 

[RonHebbard]

All this talk about falling snow (or rain) is giving me some ideas.

This is a store-bought 24" one for $34.95 on eBay. I imagine such a thing could be turned horizontal in a specially-designed frame, spun with a variable speed gear motor, and hit with a shuttered ellipsoidal (or a few pinspots). I'll bet you could create some very nice effects with it. You could probably even DIY the mirror column to suit your needs, since mirror tiles (or adhesive strips of them) are readily available and PVC pipe is cheap. Build a little cage for it and you're off to the races (in theory).

View attachment 15258

@Les After the Red Chinese army and the Shanghi ballet had been through with their marvelous hand-made snow effects, one of our several head electricians announced he'd studied theirs and was confident it was "No big deal. Nothing special. and he could whip up his own with no trouble at all." After several VERY POOR attempts at building and operating, his device was relegated to a basement store room where it was referred to as "X's mashed potatoes from hell" effect. As with so many things in life, the magic was as much, or more so, in the person as his machine.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Les]

@RonHebbard Haha, touché. I was thinking something along the lines of the Gam FilmFX, rather than a dazzling light show in itself. Kind of an over-engineered, extremely complicated and probably temperamental version of the FilmFX.

 

[josh88]

You just need to find an old disco club so you can get your own tarantula.

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[Les]

@josh88 Haha, that is too cool! I love these old "steampunk-ish" disco lights. One system I researched recently was the Litelab Starburst. If only I had a gameroom.

 

[josh88]

@josh88 Haha, that is too cool! I love these old "steampunk-ish" disco lights. One system I researched recently was the Litelab Starburst. If only I had a gameroom.

we got ours from a club in town, they moved buildings, we grabbed it when they moved and got it all restored and back to working order. Then one of the owners died before we could give it back and the other one didn't want it, so now we can have dance parties in the shop.

 

[venuetech]

Small tiles make more dots. So a 20" with 1/2" would be good , 24" would have a lot more room for tiles.

 

[ship]

Replacement tiles and replacing the tiles on the mirror ball comes up. Certainly if a tile falls out and does not break you can epoxy it back in. Replacement tiles normally come from by way of replacement tile sheets of mirror sheets. 1/2" I know of as with 3/4" and 1" mirrors for mirror balls in transport carts as wide as a show truck. 1/4" say or at least smaller than 1/2" isn't easily chiseled out or I think easily replacable.

Almuminum ball core is a good core but really anything plastic and fiberglass is dependant in both being as good, how well the mirrors stick. Before it chashes into something and you have to chisel off the broken lenses. I wold prefer a popped off mirror to chiseling off broken ones.