My venue has the world's worst light rig. Need help making it suck less.

[funkOmeter]

I need help. I'm the production manager of a music venue that runs 25+shows a month from C level nationals and jam bands to singer songwriters, folk dances to church services and we have THE WORST lighting rig in the known universe and I need help planing an upgrade.


Budget: Nothing at the moment. I have to convince the powers that be to spend a little on it cause our customers (promoters and bands) are asking for it. So I'd say 1 to 2 grand.

Venue: 550 capacity music hall with low ceilings. Or rafters that is. Wood floor, 2' stage height, 7.5 feet from stage to rafters. Stage is 30' wide by 15' deep proscenium style. Upstage wall is covered by a curtain. Can supply pics if interested.

Current "light rig": 5 PAR 64 cans upstage clamped to the rafters with 80 watt screw in lamps. 5 PAR 38 cans downstage clamped to the rafters with 80 watt screw in bulbs. 4 more PAR 38 cans in the rafters out in the room as house lights. One Elation 24 channel controller. Gels. THATS IT.

Power: The stage has 3 20 amp circuits on 20 amp quads on the upstage wall separate from the audio distro and one 20 amp quad in the rafters.

What we need: A tasteful, simple, inexpensive LED package to replace or augment our old conventional PAR's that doesn't require an LD to handle but could be controlled by the occasional visiting LD w/ his package.

I'm thinking 8-10 LED PAR's and a simple controller that will handle everything. Maye LED bars too? Something cheap and effective like Slimpars?

Help me out here please. I'm not a lampie.


EDIT: Oh yea. I should say the venue has been around for 12 years or so and is considered to be one of the best venues in the region. We regularly host grammy winners and acts that would be above our station in a bigger market.

 

[ccm1495]

Few quick things
1-2 thousand dollars is still almost no budget when it comes to lighting.
It dose not seem like you have a lot of power available. For any more conventionals at least. In this respect LEDs seem like your best option.
LEDs may be completely out of you budget or at least any LEDs that are reliable and bright.
It just seems to me that the budget you have will not be the right size for the upgrade you are looking for. Seeing as it is a popular venue maby you can get some more money out of the "powers".

 

[DuckJordan]

Actually if they are using 80w fixtures, even American DJ stuff would be brighter. What Elation controller do you have you may not even need an upgraded console. Seeing as how you get C level bands in are you sure purchasing would be a good idea instead of just renting?

 

[funkOmeter]

Actually if they are using 80w fixtures, even American DJ stuff would be brighter. What Elation controller do you have you may not even need an upgraded console. Seeing as how you get C level bands in are you sure purchasing would be a good idea instead of just renting?

No rental houses in town at all. And remember stage is only 15' deep and 7.5 feet to rafters. So yes pretty much anything will be an upgrade from
10x 80 watt cans. Even 4-8 color changing LED's or some LED bars on the Curtians for downlighting would be a great improvement. I'll post some links to videos when I get home.

 

[Les]

You may want to PM BillESC. I'll bet he could get you a great deal on LED strips and Pars (which, from the sound of it, are exactly what you need). Short of that, DJ Equipment | DJ Lights | Speakers and Amplifiers | Fog Fluid |Stage Lighting | LED lighting | Stage Trussing | Aluminum Truss | DJ Gear

 

[lightingguy1]

Ha! Watch out!

The time I tried to call my rig crappy, I was under fire by this community and some colleagues(Well....not the entire community). That was in a National PR release, so I can understand.

In other words, Be thankful for what you have. What if you didn't have all of that "suck-ish" equipment? You guys would be in the dark, literally.

 

[jfetter]

If you do replace your equipment I'd suggest decent LED pucks, prefereably RGBW ones and try and keep them recessed into the rafters or at least flush to give as much head room as possible. I did many, many clubs in the 80's and 90's and it wasn't uncommon to find a stage with no head room but today's LED fixtures will at least allow you to run so much cooler and on a single 20 Amp circuit plus the bands will thank you! As for budget, you can find 10W x 7 RGBW's Pucks for around $155 - $200, I'd go with 8 of these and a simple DMX console to start, you can squeek in at $2K but you'll want to add to it for certain...

Jack

 

[shiben]

Ha! Watch out!

The time I tried to call my rig crappy, I was under fire by this community and some colleagues(Well....not the entire community). That was in a National PR release, so I can understand.

In other words, Be thankful for what you have. What if you didn't have all of that "suck-ish" equipment? You guys would be in the dark, literally.

I think in your case it was more of a "protip" situation, in this current one, I think it might actually be accurate... Anyhow:

Im a huge fan of ColorKey for LED PARs, at 150 bucks you can get 10 of them for a decent price, they are pretty darn bright, and will serve well as backlight. They are China-built, low-budget things, but dang they are nice. They also have much nicer products, but I have not used those on lower budgets. For the price, they are excellent. Also take a gander at Blizzard, though their prices will be higher. IMO for a small stage you can get a start on a decent rig, and move it up in the world as time and money allows. LEDs will be good to you, so thats a good instinct to be looking in that direction, and in a small venue like that, I think an LED PAR64 might even feel too "big" for the space, but I would run with it. Also some here will hate me for it, but I HATE LED strips unless they are going on a cyc. I just hate the way they look when washing a stage. But thats just me. Anyhow, check out the sources and products listed, and let us know if you have any more questions?

 

[derekleffew]

funkOmeter, I agree with the others saying that LED fixtures are the way to go, but be aware, that many/most LED units, in order to appear and advertise as brighter, emit a fairly narrow beam. The last thing you want with a 7.5' throw distance is a bunch of two foot splotches of color on your stage. Attempts at using diffusion media usually provide less than satisfactory results. Most cheaper units don't even have a way to add a gelframe or accessory. Be sure to get a demo in your space, of all potential candidates.

You'll probably also need to upgrade your control. LED fixtures need a minimum of three DMX channels (RGB), and a max. of 30+ (striplight type), per fixture. It adds up quickly.

 

[JD]

Using that budget as a cap, I would suggest maybe six of the Chauvet LED pars Products » LED PAR 64 TRI-B | CHAUVET® Lighting (About $300 each)
and ChamSys MagicQ software on a PC with a Dongle. (Software is free in the limited version, Dongle is about $100)

Derek brings up a good point about beam width. You may also want to pick up a shoebox dimmer http://www.elationlighting.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=1185&MainId=1&Category=Dimmers and Relays (About $200) and use the "conventionals" as front wash lights to get good coverage, and the LEDs for specials and rear and side lighting. That would be run off the MagicQ as well.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Getting on the LED bandwagon here as well, I'd get a few colorkey or blizzard LED pars for the back, and either more of those or some LED bars to use as sidelight.

 

[ZDurler88]

Yes to LEDs as well. As far as the comment someone made about American DJ stuff, we actually have a lot of LED bars and PARS at our church from them that we use for backdrop looks and other things. I woudn't bash them. You can do much better, but with a limited budget, I think they could get the job done with the space you're dealing with. Some of the looks we have at church are awesome and we've never had issues with the lights. However, I would also advise you to still get the most for your money. Sometimes just settling with things that you're not completely happy with will come back to bite you eventually. Just my two cents.

 

[shiben]

Yes to LEDs as well. As far as the comment someone made about American DJ stuff, we actually have a lot of LED bars and PARS at our church from them that we use for backdrop looks and other things. I woudn't bash them. You can do much better, but with a limited budget, I think they could get the job done with the space you're dealing with. Some of the looks we have at church are awesome and we've never had issues with the lights. However, I would also advise you to still get the most for your money. Sometimes just settling with things that you're not completely happy with will come back to bite you eventually. Just my two cents.

Oh no question ADJ fills a market. A lot of people on this forum have a negative view of them, but they have a significant market, the real problem is using them for things they were not designed for. This is a situation they were designed for, IMO. I just like the build quality of ColorKey LEDs better.

 

[andrewcook]

Current "light rig": 5 PAR 64 cans upstage clamped to the rafters with 80 watt screw in lamps. 5 PAR 38 cans downstage clamped to the rafters with 80 watt screw in bulbs. 4 more PAR 38 cans in the rafters out in the room as house lights. One Elation 24 channel controller. Gels. THATS IT.

im really confused, a PAR 64 with 80 watt screw in bulbs???? could you post a picture, I've never seen or heard of anything like that

 

[DuckJordan]

im really confused, a PAR 64 with 80 watt screw in bulbs???? could you post a picture, I've never seen or heard of anything like that

You got to remember, a Par can is just a coffee can with a light socket attached inside... likely not something you could purchase (as in the 80w screwbase par 64) from very reputable manufacturers.At least not intended for this use.

 

[len]

First, I'd contact some recent and future acts and ask if they have a lighting rider. That way, you'll have an idea of what they're used to. Second, LED technology has improved in quality and brightness over the past year, and will continue to do so at a pretty rapid pace for the short term. So it would be easily possible to get a decent amount of light onto your stage given your current wall power. The problem is your low trim height. I'd try to do a lot of crossing stuff, get fixtures with wide angles, and do some stuff on the floor and maybe in the house if possible. That will help a lot. $1K is pretty meager, but for $5K you can do a lot.

The way to persuade the owners is to do a market survey. If no one else has anything, and they all make money, then the ownership won't care because spending money won't net a good return. You have to show them that upgrades will mean more money in the door, and proving that means knowing what your competition is doing so you can be better.

 

[funkOmeter]

Hi guys.. thanks for the replies.

First of all I'd say that these days 2K WILL upgrade a weak lighting rig for a small venue like mine. Hell all the lighting gear we have in the room you can double for $500 and you'd say that wasn't an obvious upgrade? I digress...

Here's a bit of youtube video show in the room a few years back of our old friend Tyler giving a sold out solo performance. It's not great quality but you get a good perspective of the space and what I'm working with:

Tyler Ramsey - YouTube

So in the last few days I ripped everything down, found and rehung all the cans cut new gels. it's now 9 par 38's down stage, Two par 64's side stage both sides and 3 par 64's up in the rafters for down lighting on the curtain. These are hidden by a "cloud" put in the rafters to absorb reflections. Looks a bit better and we have more options. Noticeable improvement just doing that.

I've also got 2 Source 4 Leko's that I'm working on hanging in near the back of the room but not entirely sure what best to do with them. I'm thinking of using them for spots or throw gobo's in them for a general wash of some sort. Guess I'll have to play around a little. Once again I'm not a LD.

I've also realized I have a few more 20 amp circuits available on stage I can use for lights. I really don't need 3 20's for on stage back line. I can share or re-appropriate one or two of them for lighting if need be though since LED's are really the obvious direction I don't for see needing much more power.

As for the par 64's with screw in bulb sockets they where something that happened before my time. somebody pulled the business parts out of them and somehow affixed hardware store screw in bulb sockets to them. Don't know why. Maybe because 64's with 500 watt lamps are the wrong thing to hang in a venue with 9 foot ceiling and eat up a lot of energy to throw a 4 foot beam spread on such a stage and roast muso's heads in the process. Anyway they're pretty near useless so I've just got them doing down lighting on the curtains and that looks pretty good.

 

[josh88]

First of all I'd say that these days 2K WILL upgrade a weak lighting rig for a small venue like mine. Hell all the lighting gear we have in the room you can double for $500 and you'd say that wasn't an obvious upgrade? I digress...

If you want to run with just pars and cheap stuff then sure. But if you start buying up source 4's brand new $2,000 will run out pretty fast. Sure you could stretch it till you ran out of power probably but if you want color mixing leds you've probably got to factor in a new board too. Of course adding to practically nothing to begin with would make a huge difference. What degree were the S4's that you picked up? and how far is it to the back of the room?

 

[shiben]

If you want to run with just pars and cheap stuff then sure. But if you start buying up source 4's brand new $2,000 will run out pretty fast. Sure you could stretch it till you ran out of power probably but if you want color mixing leds you've probably got to factor in a new board too. Of course adding to practically nothing to begin with would make a huge difference. What degree were the S4's that you picked up? and how far is it to the back of the room?

Picking up 12 ColorKey 10mm PAR 64s and a MagicCue dongle and a laptop to run it all on is totally doable for 2000 bucks. That would improve everything by a huge factor.

 

[josh88]

Picking up 12 ColorKey 10mm PAR 64s and a MagicCue dongle and a laptop to run it all on is totally doable for 2000 bucks. That would improve everything by a huge factor.

true, I always forget computer based options.