Poll What kind of HPL lamp do you use?

[JChenault]

What kind of HLP lamp do you usually use in your S-4?

375W X ( Extended Life)
375W ( 300 hour lamp)
575W X ( Extended life)
575W ( 300 hour lamp)
750W

 

[josh88]

Once I blow through the extended life 575's I inherited when I took this job I'll be moving up to the 750W I desperately need the extra punch but someone thought it was important to have 3 times more lamps than S4's so it will be awhile before I go through them all.

 

[derekleffew]

Added some options to the poll. [-] Use Other if you use ONLY (exclusively the 550W 77V Dimmer Doubler lamp).[/-] If your locale uses other than 120V, select the wattage and high-output/long-life that best fits.

If you use a mixture of wattage/life lamps, [-]use the most predominant in your venue.[/-] It's a multiple choice poll; select all that apply.

See also the threads:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...res-long-life-lamps-vs-high-output-lamps.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/21973-lamps-long-life-high-output.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/5345-hpl-575-750-your-source4.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/3665-difference-between-hpl-750-115-120s.html

 

[BobHealey]

I do tech in 6 venues, with lamp choices all over the map. The first 4 venues are are a university. I'm being vague on purpose as to where it is, since as an unofficial advisor and non-student I can't speak authoritatively for the student groups, and as an employee of the university I'm not allowed to speak authoritatively at all. Venue #5 is owned by same university, but I'm the LD for an outside group renting the space for a show. Venue #6 is a community theater 20 minutes away from the university where I am head of the lighting dept and unsure on their policy of speaking as someone who Knows Things.
Venue #1: Student Playhouse. Every fixture is lamp'd with the highest wattage, longest life lamp supported by the fixture. This applies to the Source 4s, the S4 parnels, the S4 PAR MCMs, the PAR 64's, 65Q's, 75Q's, etc.
Venue #2: Student Union. Same as above. Highest wattage lamp, longest life lamp in that wattage. Applies to the PAR 56, PAR 64, and Source 4 fixtures
Venue #3: Small Auditorium. The S4 Par EAs, S4 Parnels, S4's are all 750X.
Venue #4: Large auditorium. The S4's are lamped 575X to fit into the power budget and blend with the hodgepodge of random fixtures. Each wash is a different product line. Shakes are lamped SPH-575LL, 75Q with BVT, Strand 6x16's with FEL, Altman 1KL's with FEL. All produce to the eye the same level of brightness on stage.
Venue #5: University chapel. In the process of migrating from EGG to EGE for the Century/Hub 6x6's and 6x9's. Same with the fresnels. Religious services use the stage fixtures to highlight stuff and don't feel the added heat is worth the extra lumens for what they want.
Venue #6: Community theater. The 4 S4 Jrs are lamped with 575X, the 4 S4 Pars are 750X, all 360Qs between 4.5x6 and 6x12 have EHG, 6x16's have FEL, 65Q and 75Q are BTN and BVT respectively. Planning on dropping wattage down a step for everything since everyone thinks the stage is too **** bright with the above load out. I think its fine, but I'm used to very bright stages (see venues #1-4 where I spent most of my time as an undergrad tech).

 

[ship]

Depends on the show and application but mostly 750w high output. Most shows in competing with movers, 2K Fresnels or 1K PAR Cans would be using the 750w and that is most of the shows. Smaller shows get more artistic or if longer in stay long life lamps if even 120v versions. Stuff inside stores that seem to have voltage spikes when the lights and regesters go on tend to get 120v lamps or pop faster.

Brand though as I thought- what is available or on sale at times or mostly all about the packaging and drop safety of the lamp. Yea, I dropped a brand new GE HPL lamp while still in the box infront of a rep. and it did pop. Same with or even more so with the Philips version. Ushio is generally good as long as the inner packaging clips stay in place. More than one set of clips came undone or ripped off without knowing while grabbing the lamp and there goes the now dropped inner package and lamp.

 

[rochem]

At school, we tend to use mostly 575W (not X) for most of a rig, but designers almost always spec 750W lamps in anything with a scroller/seachanger/anything they might key with. The show we just loaded out had almost half of the 400-unit rig lamped up to 750W. For events and shows that I program or work outside of school, there are usually a dozen or more MLs to compete with, so 750W is the norm. When I worked in a large shop, we had enormous bins of end caps with 750W, 575W, and 550/77 (with L5-15 connectors) lamps ready to go out the door, as those were by far the most common.

 

[bishopthomas]

I use whatever the dimmers du jour will support. If I can tie in with the "real" dimmer rack I use 750's. If I'm using shoebox dimmers for Edison only gigs it's gotta be 575. I selected 575x as well only because I do have a few floating around the shop. I don't remember why I have them, probably got in a bind and bought/borrowed spares from a local house.

 

[DELO72]

Nuts. I had a lengthy reply and lost it as my "security token was missing". ah well. I'll sumarize if I can. I always preferred 575W 115V 300 hr. lamps for the punch when I was an LD and ME. You can always make a lamp last longer by dimming it (or profiling your dimmers/board down to 95% at full, etc.), but you can't easily make it brighter- so for that reason I avoided the Long Life versions as output was the biggest priority for me. Also- note that the avg. Life is for a lamp run at FULL intensity for 60 minutes on, 10 minutes off. Since you are most often dimming them or running them at various intensities thoughout your cues and shows, you will such a FAR greater life on them that that average in most circumstances.

The biggest sellers at the moment are the 575W 115V/X (Long life). They by a very slight margin edge out the regular 575W 115V HPLs which was the biggest seller until about 3 years ago. Then comes the 750w 115V, and the 750W, 115V/X. Then the 575W 120V (as I think a lot of places use the 120V as a sort of compromise for the output of the 115V 300hr., but underpowered and so getting a longer life, but not as dim or as long a life as the long life 115V.

 

[sk8rsdad]

I stay away from long life bulbs, preferring the intensity and color temperature of the regulars. However, labour is free in my facility and access relamping is not an issue.

 

[jglodeklights]

575WC is my main choice. Excellent balance between output intensity and a natural looking color balance at all intensities. However, when it comes to my follow spots where I (personally) want more blue content than red and green and often need the additional output, I will choose a 750WC. Finally, one theater I work in is pretty much 98% dimmer doubled; I need 550/77V lamps for that space.

 

[ship]

Long hours and many years of hand typing in lamp specs to my own tables has sped up my typing rate - good or bad in words per minute. (Once fired... I could so easily become a receptionist/secretary/execuitive assistant.) Graduated H.S. typing class at 26 Words per minute - think I'm about word of thought in typing by now. That and copying and or writing reply on different programs.

Fascinating on the stats given my HPL 750w/C shelf is empty at the moment in shows taking 10 to 20 at a time and if case I send the extras in 12 pack sealed box in getting them back often not used. Like the sealed box in knowing that no monkeys have been tinkering with changing wattage or putting a perfectly bad one into a good box without marking the box as bad. Bet the Ushio lamp codes used are kind of grinding on your teeth . Standardized lamp code would be good and amongst four main suppliers only takes a second if possible to at least standardize more this type of lamp description.

Specifically left out Osram in my notes about dropping or packaging by the way - boxes become mushy in a little thin, but overall survive "Hi, I'm the lamp guy - they call me fumble fingers." for replacement lamps.

Totally agree with the "headroom" we can go to 11' concept spoken about before. Save the 750w (follow spot or special) room for where it's needed.

 

[DELO72]

Bet the Ushio lamp codes used are kind of grinding on your teeth .

What is the /C? I'm not familiar with that nomenclature. This is where the loyal company man in me says, "Well, THAT's why you should be buying OSRAM. "Mushy boxes".... sheesh. We wrap ours in foam so they survive the trip! --and the greasy fingers of students and forgetful techies. ;-)

 

[gafftapegreenia]

I do like the Ushio boxes for their long lifespan as a reusable lamp container.

 

[ship]

No idea of what /C means and I bet I grinds your teeth about like how LEE or Apollo grind their teeth when some RoscoLux standard most learn and memorize for gel is mentioned as per what all understand.

Given the HPL lamp is non-ANSI definition as to lamp spefific much like a HX-600 or what was the HX-604 and were there versions other? I believe the ETC pattent on HPL is now past, improvements on the way to it and for other lamps? And or other lamps to replace the HPL lamp?

Once ANSI for a S-4 lamp, no doubt the Ushio code of X verses C easier in otherwise similar info given. Sorry but I at least simplified Ushio lamp code as per Rosco gel code in learning.

 

[ship]

Stack well in bulk storage of plastic but once the cardboard outer shell clips fail, they can drop. That and if someone forgets to close them or they open while pulling them. Decent system but with problems.

Most caution to those that don't truck around the world lamps, when pulling a lamp out of a cabinet... be careful as it's box might be compromized in lamp falling. That and don't be fumble fingers in trying to grab too many. Problem solved for packaging.

 

[dramatech]

My theatre is a community theatre with 367 seats and a 30' Proscenium. We have 6 electrics. One just downstage of the proscenium and five over the stage,including the cyc electric, that has 4 circuit PAR 40s, 60 lamps in total. With the same as a ground row. There are 2 FOH positions and 2 near and 2 far boom positions in the house.
We have 92 Source 4s, four of which are "on a stick" follow spots. Two are on Right arms with iris and scroller. And one on an Autoyoke. All are lamped with HPL 575 with the exception of the followspots and moving arms/yokes. They are all lamped with HPL 750s. I have 16 EC8" Fresnels, 9 EC6" Fresnels and 10 Altman 6" Fresnels, that I have modified to use HPL lamps. The 8" use HPL750s and the 6" use HPL575s. In addition to all of those that use the HPL lamps, I have 10 Selecon Acclaims that use FRKs and 22 Altman 6X12s that are burning GLAs.
All of the lamps are Osram with the exception of the 8" Fresnels that are Ushio. There are still a few HPL575xs floating around the inventory. A few years back, when we thought that we might go "Belly up", we purchased the X versions in ordr to same money with their long life. Once we were a little more stable, we went back to brighter/shorter life lamps. The Ushio HPL 750s in the 8" Fresnels, were because of it being experimental at first and a purchase of 24 lamps was quite a bit cheaper with the Ushios. Our Altman 360Qs, currently using GLAs, which were also an experiment, with me totally rebuilding the lamp cap with all new wiring, strain relief, and sockets. With that expense, we went with the longer life GLA to see how they would do. The results are so pleasing, that we are going to start replacing them with the brighter GLCs.
Once we are through this transition, We will only need to stock GLCs, FRKs and HPL 575/115 and 750/115.
A last point, when we use instruments with gobos from a distance, we lamp up to a HPL750.
While I was rebuilding all of the lamp caps on the ALtman 360Qs, I was successful in building one that could use the HPL lamps. The brightness was about the same as the GLA, but the amount of machining labor to make 22 of the caps was a little too much for reducing our inventory of one less lamp type.

 

[ship]

... 10 Altman 6" Fresnels, that I have modified to use HPL lamps. The 8" use HPL750s and the 6" use HPL575s.

And more fascinating. While they are all G-9.5 lamps for Leko's, for a Fresnel, that is a lot of work so as to do such a change. Interested in what/how you did. Obviously the BTH lamp might have been a more simple solution for the 6" but very much curious in this work especially on the 8". That must have taken some work especially and above how the socket holder for a HPL was converted to Fresnel slider plate use. Very curious in an admiring way - voided UL listing in a don't try it at home way, but very interested.

 

[dramatech]

And more fascinating. While they are all G-9.5 lamps for Leko's, for a Fresnel, that is a lot of work so as to do such a change. Interested in what/how you did. Obviously the BTH lamp might have been a more simple solution for the 6" but very much curious in this work especially on the 8". That must have taken some work especially and above how the socket holder for a HPL was converted to Fresnel slider plate use. Very curious in an admiring way - voided UL listing in a don't try it at home way, but very interested.

First let me say that my reasons for doing it were several. One of the strongest was that the prefocus lamps tend to get stuck in in the socket and make for a very difficult change of lamps when they are in the air, and just before a performance. Next, all of my prefocus sockets were in really bad shape, and as long as I was going to replace them any way, I might just as well reduce the number of lamps that I have to keep in inventory, also we really like the color temp match to our source 4s.
The thing that made it less difficult than I might have supposed, is the use of the old discarded portions of the source 4 lamp burners that were pre 1998. You know the ones with out the lamp retaining spring. I have a milling machine and lathe in my garage, and love to develop things using those machines. I did one instrument first just to see if the pattern was as bright and as symetrical as the original lamp. While the results were not perfect, they were so good that of the 10 or so people at our theatre that I asked to compare the modified unit with the original, only I could see the difference.
The first thing I did was to mill away all of the outer ring and it's supports of a early source 4 socket assembly. I had 32 of these pieces as I had modified all of our early (pre fall of 1997) source 4s with the upgrade kits, and had these parts sitting around. By machining away everything that was not part of the place where the socket fits in and the two parts that run vertical to support the large flat spring, that holds the socket in and aligns the lamp, there wasn't a very large piece left. I did leave the hole where the bolt is resessed into the socket holder. I then fabricated a standoff from aluminum that had the correct height for placing the center of the filament in the center of the reflector. This standoff is sort of "C" shaped when viewed from the side. On the top where the socket mounts, I machined it with a little notch so it would line up with the edge of the socket holder and then monted it using the original hole for the bolt, that was used to adjust the height position in the original source 4 mounting. This bolt is set into the resess, through the top of my "c" bracket and fastened with a lock washer and nut. The bottom of the bracket is drilled with several holes so that the original threaded holes that held the prefocus socket could be used to mount the whole assembly. Again small machine bolts of the appropriate thread along with lock washers were used for mounting. Holes of a much larger size were drilled through the top of the bracket to allow a screwdriver to go through to mount the bolts. I used TP22 sockets from production advantage that are meant for the Source 4 PARs and PARNels. They will fit the older socket holders, but are robust enough for a 750 lamp.
The fact that the newer Source fours with the retaining clips are so much better for keeping the pins of the lamps from loosening and arcing, I felt that I had to find a way of securing the lamps. On the two veritcal lamps supports of the socket housing, there is a round portion on each. I drilled down into one of those posts and tapped it for 8-32 screws. I then got short stainless screws and washers that when screwed into those holes overlap enough to lock the top of the lamp heat sink. After using them for a while, I went back and modified the washers using a dremel, so that the screw did not have to be removed all of the way. Just loosen a bit and turn the washer so that it didn't cover the lamp heat sink. This made for a much more convenient lamp change.

As for voiding the UL listing, yes it does. In my case, the theatre I volunteer at, had so many wiring issues that I corrected over the last few years, that when we approached the AHJ, we demonstrated the mods and the advantages of less chance of a fire than with the prefocus lamp sockets, where they can touch the mounting through a broken fiber insulator, and the fact that we were removing all of the asbestos wiring, that he was pleased as can be to support our use of the modified lighting instuments.

A point of interest is that when I got around to doing the 6" Frenels, the steel spacer removed from the 8" fresnels was exactly the correct height for filament placement on the 6" units, and saving me from fabricating spacers for the 6" Fresnels.

I considered taking pictures of all of the steps, but then realized that very few theatres could get the AHJs approval, and so decided that it was probably better that I not promote the idea. I just had a bunch of old Fresnels that were in really bad shape, and kept going out and were a pain in the --- to change lamps. It was a fun challenge, and they have been fantastic for the year and a half since I did them. I will say that the Electro-Control Fresnels, both 8" and 6", have a much better reflector, and easier parts to work on than any of the Altmans.

Ship, if you are interested I will try and do some photos after the fact.

Tom Johnson

 

[shiben]

I do like the Ushio boxes for their long lifespan as a reusable lamp container.

See I always liked the foam wrapped ones, if you are a moron OR cant change a lamp without touching it for some other reason, you can use the foam to keep from touching it. Also, the lamps always seemed to come out broken less when we got send OSRAM as opposed to Ushio, but the local house carried Ushio so we used them more often...

Anyhow, 750W, 300 hours. Plenty of ways to make a light not as bright, but not tons and tons of ways to make a not as bright lamp brighter. Thats my reasoning at least.

 

[ship]

Ushio boxes do properly protect when the plastic housing don't fall out of flip in securing the casing. Moron's are moron's and better than that foam is the bags used at some times but not exclusive to brand to brand if someone adds the last to remove part of the lamp after installing. Now if an invented plastic that will remove itself should one forget to remove the plastic.... Will happen and become a problem. At times you might get a bag over the lamp, at other times you might get foam removed before it's install. Sucks at times and frequently I just add denatured alcocol pads to the boxes of lamps. Them left over from lamps that nobody needed/wanted to use them in provided.

Them on site or in shop changing lamps thing about training none of us on this website could imagine doing. Just happens by those that don't care as explination.

Wow! Dramatech... Puts my making learning to make 1/12-13 to M-12-1.75 male to male threaded adaptor bolts on a metal leath in me learning such a tool to real shame for tech and study and training this past week as opposed to what you are doing. At the moment I'm learning silver braizing but key concept in both perhaps is not stopped learning or trying such things in a responsible educated way to stop doing so if thought best in trying. In the morning I am dropping off six LECO band 1968 refinished 6x16 Lekos that were by me converted to 100w A-19 lamp GE-Reveal lamp fixtures. No longer useful for theater, but useful for lighting one's home, and brought back to factory sepc or better to be sold back in a theare lobby for household use.

Can't really say on what you are doing in fascinating, yes send me info as I'm interested. Such concepts are fascinating in taking it back to the 1960's retrofit revolution concepts I see in catalogues. HPL for what you are doing really cool in work and thanks.