Table saw for tech theater class?

[dpak]

I teach high school theater, including a tech theater class which builds all of the sets for our shows. One of the problems I’ve come across is cutting 8x4 sheets of wood. Currently I have the students clamp a 2x4 across the sheet to act as a guide so they can cut a straight line with a circular saw, but that doesn’t always work. I’m considering buying a table saw, but I’m concerned about the safety. We also have mitre saws, jig saws and reciprocating saws, and those have handled everything else we’ve needed to do (and in four years, I’ve never had a student injure themselves with a saw, knock on wood!).

Looking at Home Depot, we could get a decent table saw for $300 - $500, but I don’t want to spend that much on something that I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting the students use. Any suggestions on what to look for in a table saw (or better ways to cut straight lines?)

 

[gafftapegreenia]

With students, either get a Sawstop saw, or a track saw. One needn't buy the Festool track saw (as nice as it is) as DeWalt and Grizzly make very serviceable models.


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[BillConnerFASTC]

I'm no longer supervising students using power tools - like not since 1982 - but I have to think a Sawstop is the best answer today with a lot the ball bearing saw stands. A panel saw would be convenient for sheet material only.

 

[dpak]

The Sawstop looks great, but it's out of the price range. I wasn't aware of track saws, but they look like they're just what I'm looking for - easy to use and hard to mess up. Thank you both for the suggestions!

 

[BSchend]

Anything short of a SawStop quality level table saw won't last with kids. Things will break too fast, plus the safety features (while still good) aren't at the same level.

I'd personally recommend a panel saw if you can get (or make) one if you are just focusing on sheet goods. You don't ever get near the saw blade and they can usually be set up to work with your existing circular saws so the frame is all you really need to get.

A track saw set up seems like your best bet. With that being said, you could also try a different type of diy saw guide before you go spend the money.

The problem you probably have with the 2x4 method is the inconsistency of where they line up the guide + width of the saw, plus dealing with the 2x4 being in the way. Cut an 8' long x 3-4" wide piece of 3/4 ply that leaves the factory edge on one side. Cut an 8' long piece of 1/2 ply that is 1-2 inches wider than the combined width of the 3/4 ply + your circular saw. Attach with glue and screws/brads/etc. the 3/4 ply 1" in from the edge of the 1/2 ply with the 3/4 factory edge facing the wider section of 1/2. Take your circular saw and using the 3/4 ply as your guide edge cut the excess 1/2 ply off. You now have a saw guide that is custom fit to your saw. You simply line up the edge of the 1/2 ply with you cut line, clamp down using the 1" overhang on the other side, and you'll get straight lines every time. (if my ramblings are too hard to follow google "DIY circular saw guide" and it's the same as the first image that comes up).

Notes: You can use a 1x4 instead of 3/4, but that can be tricky finding a truly straight one. Worm drive saws work best with this, but sidewinders work too with a little adjustment to cut depth. This is a great set up if you have multiple of a single style saw, but you could also make guides for different saws for a few bucks each. I also recommend making a 4' length guide as the 8' can get unwieldy when cutting shorter spans.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Doesn't seem like the track saw - purchased or home built - solves the safety issue, plus you still have to block it up. While what you or I do is up to us, I think you need to make the case for a panel saw. Must be safest way to cut sheet goods. The track saw still leaves a spinning blade too easily contacted.

 

[AudJ]

+ 1 opinion for panel saw.

 

[Colin]

Panel saw, sure, but I'd say any table saw with a blade guard, riving knife or splitter, anti-kickback pawls and good push sticks, properly taught and supervised, is safer and easier than a circ saw (guided with a straight edge or not) for student use. Cutting thick sheets, I have way more students struggle to control a circ saw (and keep track of the power cord) than with a TS. So while I think you have a strong and probably eventually winnable argument for a SawStop version, anything stationary is a significant improvement for quality and safety.

 

[MikeJ]

I think its a shame that some places will not let students use tools. I would try to find the money somewhere for a saw stop. Even pro shops are using sawstops, just because they reduce liability a lot.

A panel saw does you no good for ripping, yes it is difficult to stretch across a 4' piece with a circ saw, but I'm not sure it justifies buying a panel saw when a table say does both better.

Good training and a decent splitter goes a long way. I don't like spltters and gaurds for some things, where the with of the guard blocks your work. It also makes it hard measure from the blade to the fence, and you cant start a cut in the middle of a piece by lowering the board onto the blade, but those things should not be issues in a high school theater environment.

 

[AudJ]

A panel saw does you no good for ripping,

Although true for some home-made varieties, name-brand panel saws do rip quite nicely. That last tiny bit when the top panel looses an 1/8" at the end of the cut has always bothered me though. Make sure the working piece is on the bottom.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Although true for some home-made varieties, name-brand panel saws do rip quite nicely. That last tiny bit when the top panel looses an 1/8" at the end of the cut has always bothered me though. Make sure the working piece is on the bottom.

Rip panels or rip 16' sawn lumber?

In a scene shop, I think both a panel saw and a table saw is justified.

 

[AudJ]

Rip panels or rip 16' sawn lumber?

In a scene shop, I think both a panel saw and a table saw is justified.

Of course just panels. I agree both saws would be ideal, but I don't find myself ripping narrow boards often for stage jobs.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Of course just panels. I agree both saws would be ideal, but I don't find myself ripping narrow boards often for stage jobs.

When I ran a scene shop I never bought any lumber other than 1 x 12 x 16' pine and ripped it all as needed. I find myself ripping two-by as well. Sort of curious what MI was thinking.

I'm sure if I had to decide between the two, I'd go with table saw, but if running a shop for HS students - not as clear cut - and I don't think having both is at all extravagant. (Time for a HS sports metaphor? tackling dummies of one of those sleds - do they have to choose?)

 

[Fountain Of Euph]

Students need to be able to use a table saw, and the Sawstop makes that possable. Watch one of the demo videos, it will blow your mind.

Is your administration the type that will go for the safety cost is worth it argument? If not, see if some local tool retailer will make up the difference. Free ad in programs or even a little blurb"tools for this production provided by our generous supporter, localhardwarestorename. We gladly appreciate their continuing support of education in the scenic arts."



Sent from Taptalk for Android, this was.

 

[venuetech]

http://toolguyd.com/bosch-reaxx-table-saw/
Bosch is adding their reaxx flesh detecting saw to th the mix soon. But it has yet to hit the stores and the price point will be close to the sawstop. But the blade is not trashed when triggered so that could add up to make it worth the wait.

In my mind a table saw is going to give you the most flexibility

 

[RC4 Sean]

I would imagine that the school's insurance company would insist on a Saw Stop. Our Repertory Theatre shop and University Shop had annual safety inspections to meet the insurance guidelines. Guards, splitters, kickback prevention, all were part of the requirements. The other thing to consider is the physical ability needed to lift a sheet good onto a table saw and keep it aligned and level to the saw while cutting. I could make a very convincing case as to why a panel say and sawstop were cost saving vs possible injury on a track saw.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I would imagine that the school's insurance company would insist on a Saw Stop. Our Repertory Theatre shop and University Shop had annual safety inspections to meet the insurance guidelines. Guards, splitters, kickback prevention, all were part of the requirements. The other thing to consider is the physical ability needed to lift a sheet good onto a table saw and keep it aligned and level to the saw while cutting. I could make a very convincing case as to why a panel say and sawstop were cost saving vs possible injury on a track saw.

Good point. I think the ability for one person to move a sheet a ply into a panel saw was why I intuitively believe that it's necessary and justified in most scene shops. The space, supports, and strength needed to cut play on a table saw is not insignificant. If you weren't likely to have to rip long sawn lumber, it might tip to just the panel saw - but both panel and table saw are needed. So many factors in making the decision - the amount of production in a year being a major one.

 

[MikeJ]

If it were up to me, I would have at least one of each type of saw if budget and space were available. Even if the saw stop is not as good as another table saw(but actually, its a really good saw) I would go for that even if the school and the insurance company don't care. When you are young an learning things for the first time(or third) mistakes are likely to happen. There is no good reason no good reason not to mitigate those risks by buying the safer tool.

If someone looses a finger in a professional shop; it sucks, but that's all part of the known risks in the job.
If a student I was teaching lost a finger their first time using a table saw; that would be on me 100%.

I don't think a table saw is a particularly risky tool, but the results of a small mistakes are usually a order of magnitude greater than many other tools.

 

[robartsd]

I actually think the Saw Stop would be more important in a professional production enviornment than an educational one (not that I'm not glad to see it there too). I would expect users in an educational enviornment to have much more focus on how things should be done; in a professional production enviornment, the focus on getting things done can sometimes erode away at safe habbits (even though it shouldn't).

 

[dpak]

Wow - thanks for all the great advice! Unfortunately, money is an issue, since the school won't be paying for this - I'll be spending money raised from ticket sales, and I just can't justify spending $2000 for something that would be nice to have but isn't critical. Insurance has never come up, perhaps because admin knows we're covered (or just doesn't care what I do as long as no one gets hurt). I won't get a regular table saw; given the alternatives, it seems too risky. Just so I have a project to work on, I'll try building a DIY circular saw guide. If that doesn't work out, I'll get a track saw.

Thanks again for all the input!