In this case OP was talking about purchasing new s4s with the intent of putting 4rdws in them.
Trying to squeeze blood from a stone: S4 LED
- Thread starterDoug Lowthian
- Start date
Yes, I believe from the information presented, that the OP has NO FIXTURE at this point. Buying a new retrofit to put into a 20 year old fixture seems to me, like the worst option.
A used source4 plus a forward, is going be be almost $1000, a brand new E-160ww is $1000 with your choice of HD Lens, these lenses are MUCH better than the old S4 lenses.
-Etc basically says, It works on mains dimming but not really well, and recommends using DMX(8-bit), but there are not DMX jacks! You have to use an rj45 adapter, add that to your shopping list.
-If you do use it on dimmers, you can only put two on a D20 module.
-Only runs on 120v
-80 CRI, or pay $50 more to get 90 CRI
-You still have a glass reflector.
-you still have to bench focus the lamp
-WONT WORK WHEN COLD. I can't make this stuff up. ETC warns many times throughout their manual that using it or storing it under 41 degrees F. Will damage the fixture.
With the Ovation you get:
-120-240v operation
-Smooth 16 bit Dimming
-90 cri
-Powercon and 5-pin DMX connectors
-2 year parts and labor warranty
So would I say that the Chauvet can touch ETC? Nope, it destroys it.
Even in a High school theater, where you already have the fixtures and dimming, what are you gaining besides no lamp changes?
It would take 58 HPL Lamps to pay for a 4wrd, since the 4wrd is supposed to replace a long life lamp, that's 116,000 lamp hours. The 4wrd is only rated at 30,000 hrs.
yes, I'm not accounting for electricity use. Why? Lamps come out of the theater budget, electricity generally does not.
As far as keeping people off of ladders changing lamps, I guess that's almost a point, if it were not for changing gels and gobos.
I would even encourage many people to skip white LEDS all together and get color mixing units for a few hundred more, I'm not sure what fits the OP's need for sure, but in the example of a high school theater, the 4wrd is a lot of money spent the basically has ZERO net gain for the actual theater and its productions. Especially with how often money comes along in some departments, it seems much more useful to get a color mixing unit, even if you have to cut the fixture count in half, just being color mixing lets them be used as many more white fixtures with gels would be.
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https://www.etcconnect.com/About/Ne...opular-light-engine-with-Source-4WRD-LED.aspx
Not sure if this is current, since I see listings at $599, and $699.
"The Source 4WRD LED 120V version is available now as either a retrofit or a full fixture at a special introductory price ($599 retrofit, $899 fixture) through June 30 th , 2016. After which, the normal price will be in effect ($699 retrofit, $999 full fixture). A 230V model will be available in the near future."
Not sure if this is current, since I see listings at $599, and $699.
"The Source 4WRD LED 120V version is available now as either a retrofit or a full fixture at a special introductory price ($599 retrofit, $899 fixture) through June 30 th , 2016. After which, the normal price will be in effect ($699 retrofit, $999 full fixture). A 230V model will be available in the near future."
soundlight
Well-Known Member
I would also suggest the Ovation E-160WW for anyone looking for white-light LED source comparable to a 575W lamp. I was not impressed by the 4WRD's mains dimming when I saw it in person. I've been using a lot of the Ovation E-190WW units as well as the newer Ovation E-910FC units with RGBAL color mixing with a company I've been freelancing for, and they're fantastic. The Chauvet HD lenses are really just as good as they say, too, but the fixtures work just fine with standard Source 4 lenses.
I also continue to see white-only units as a good option for schools, whether they are used for gobo washes (often no color or a very light gel), for a static event front wash, or to have fixtures for specials.
I also continue to see white-only units as a good option for schools, whether they are used for gobo washes (often no color or a very light gel), for a static event front wash, or to have fixtures for specials.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Correct. I was speaking of LED and white LEDs in general, as I believe others were.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Just to follow up on the pricing, as of mid 2016, CS spot lists at $1495, S4 LED $2395, and 4WRD with barrel and yokd at $899 or $948 depending on CRI. The CS and SP are complete with clamp, cord and plug, diffuser, pattern holder. The 4WRD with barrel and clamp and bare ends on power cord is (or was at introductory prices) $899 or $949 depending on CRI. The lower prices are just the lamphouse, no barrel or yoke or shutter assembly. It seems dealers may not get the same discount on the 4WRD as the other products. They all need a lens - $175 or 295 depending on standard or EDLT. Its frustratingly difficult to tell how much these or others will discount, the best reason for a bid situation. I'd recommend you try to demo what seem like likely acceptable products, pick two or even three options for an entire package, and get competitive quotes from a few different dealers, detailed so you know that you have everything - cords, plugs, c-clamps, pattern holders, the lenses you want, other accessories, etc. and delivery - because I'm pretty sure the dealer won't be down the street in International Falls.
FWIW, I'd rarely recommend the 4WRD unless you are using it as a retrofit for bodies and lens tubes you already own, if that is the heart of your inquiry. Too many better options for only a little more.
PS: And now I definitely have to visit sometime. Bought a solo canoe Tuesday - up on the Gunflint Trail - so my Grand Portage to Lake of the Woods trek is seemingly closer.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Actually PIE, in rereading this thread, the OP was talking about purchasing USED, not new, S4s, and the $WRD (lower CRI) retrofit lamp house. May not change anything.
With a used S4 you could get an ES750 dimmer to bolt to the yoke for a list price in the $450-483 - under $400 discounted - and have a plug and play unit that needs only power and data with fantastic dimming, just to be a little retro. Very hard to look at costs properly without looking at the whole thing: accessories, power and data infrastructure costs, other infrastructure costs that might come into play, as well as life cycle cost.
DeadCheerios
Member
I can agree with this.
I am getting some of the new E-260WW for a demo soon.
The rated brightness is astonishing.
Its looking to compare to a 750 watt source 4, when I get a demo in I will compare but if what it says and what it can actually do is honest then for the price you just can't beat it.
I am also a fan of the Ovation series as unless I am out to lunch you can use your existing source 4 barrels if needed.
soundlight
Well-Known Member
@DeadCheerios the 260WW will blow you away with output. Make sure to throw it in to 16 bit dimming mode and run a slow fade - it's truly impressive.
DeadCheerios
Member
Doug Lowthian
Active Member
Thanks for your words of wisdom. If you make that trip I'll be glad to ferry you around the dam at I Falls. You'll have to portage your canoe through downtown I Falls otherwise!
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
After the 8+mile Grand Portage, the streets of IF will be a piece of cake, but thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
What I find really amazing is the E-260WW IP version, it should get lots of sales to theme parks and other outdoor venues.
Ford
Sr Product Manager, Chauvet Professional
To get the best results, in addition to running them in 16-bit, you will want to think about which Dimmer Mode you're using, too.
The Dimmer Modes add in a slight decay time, to make the lights appear more natural, when blended with their incandescent cousins.
this is very effective when you're using them in 8-bit mode, or in a corporate A/V show. But not necessarily if you're going to be running them in a theatrical environment, or in 16-bit mode.
When you do your long fades in 16-bit, make sure that the Dimmer Mode (simulated dim curves) on the fixture is set to off.
Then the fixture will be listening to the console for Dimming info, not trying to smooth it out the dimming itself.
If the Dimmer Mode is set to 3, it will look great when you slam down the fader, but on a 30 second fade, you may see pulsing at the very bottom, as the console and fixture battle for control.
the E260 (and 160) handle this far better than the E190 did, but this was an area that we had to explain to folks, especially at the beginning.
I hope you like your demo.
Please tell us how it goes!
-Ford
The Dimmer Modes add in a slight decay time, to make the lights appear more natural, when blended with their incandescent cousins.
this is very effective when you're using them in 8-bit mode, or in a corporate A/V show. But not necessarily if you're going to be running them in a theatrical environment, or in 16-bit mode.
When you do your long fades in 16-bit, make sure that the Dimmer Mode (simulated dim curves) on the fixture is set to off.
Then the fixture will be listening to the console for Dimming info, not trying to smooth it out the dimming itself.
If the Dimmer Mode is set to 3, it will look great when you slam down the fader, but on a 30 second fade, you may see pulsing at the very bottom, as the console and fixture battle for control.
the E260 (and 160) handle this far better than the E190 did, but this was an area that we had to explain to folks, especially at the beginning.
I hope you like your demo.
Please tell us how it goes!
-Ford
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