You are very right and gutsy to stand up to me and I respect that very much. No, I'm not always right about anything, sometimes I just shout loudest, and I do yet have stuff to learn even about this school’s value. It is the next day and I hope we can both tone down how we are expressing our views, and apologize for the bandwidth also. The debate as I understand it is not about personal attacks or what any one person thinks, but upon two differing education programs. If you don’t mind, I would not mind continuing it so we both do understand each other. This industry is very small, far too small not to come to a working agreement on views.
The entertainment industry is not wrapped around what I know, however I am one of those in the industry already that has a very successful career in it, and one of the many that have done many different parts of it to find what part I wished to
settle down into. What I wanted to do while in college - set design, did not turn out to be my end result - lighting tour technical support. What happens if moving lights is not what you want to do 10 much less thirty years from now? What if three years from now God forbid, you hurt your back or otherwise can't do this anymore? In my opinion, that's another part of the value of a more
broad based education into the arts considering that the high technology can also be learned on the job.
Me being right or wrong on what is most useful to learn in the industry is besides the
point because by debating the value of a very specific training as opposed to a more
broad one, we both learn things from discussing it I would hope.
My pointing out my concerns about the school was not to center any career around my views in what's important to be learning or any proper way of learning, but to
express my opinion about the value of a full education into all parts theater and other training outside of theater while in school. Granted it is very theater and design orientated and the tech part I was trained in is very much centered around the basics of lighting over the higher technology. It is in my opinion much easier to learn how to use higher technology fixtures than to study all about Sam Shephard on the job should it's design become your task. Give me a moving light to learn about and by the end of the week I will know all about it. Now let’s debate the corn in “Buried Child.” One education better than another, perhaps yes or no if you intend to do one specific part of the industry, than end up only doing it. The school I went to better than yours? That’s all opinion specific to the user. My intent in this debate is to say why I hold my opinions in a more
broad based education having already expressed concerns about the full training in all parts of entertainment lighting that are seemingly not focused upon in becoming an expert.
In addition to more fundamentals in wiring and conventionals, it possibly is also best to learn carpenter techniques as a lighting person should it become necessary for you to use such things. See the
fixture floor bases above and the need to learn how to make a circle
jig for a band saw to produce them. Let’s go with another example. The
yoke on a AF-1000 has gone missing and it needs to go out on a show that day. With skills in metal working you can re-produce one without out any damage to drill bits or saw blades, and
bend it to shape on the first try. There is all kinds of stuff even in training to go just onto the lighting production side that is useful to learn from other parts of production. This all assumes that design and all parts of production is of just as much value to be learning from school and you are not one of the smaller percentage that will end up only working shows or fixing moving lights. At some
point, you still need to extract a set screw stuck in a
dichroic filter to a moving light, having other skills can be useful. At some
point you will run across a stripped
yoke mounting hole on a Wild Fire
fixture that needs to be welded back solid so a new
rivet nut can be installed. If your intent is to become very qualified with a specific part of lighting and only on the production side, than perhaps Full Sail is of use. Perhaps as part of the normal education they also train you in all of these things or needing to know about them is not necessary to learn, help me to understand. A
leg up in the moving lights and boards, yes sure, but by your earlier admission, not much about conventionals that will be found everywhere in the industry and in larger numbers also in need of repair. When it’s said that I don’t do high technology, that would put me within the bulk of people in this industry. There is nothing wrong with it, as I said, if I need to know, I can find out or will be trained in it. What is the
point in me learning how to use a
Mac 550 if that’s not my job to be using it? What’s the
point in learning the light if you work in a theater that does not even have moving lights?
In my opinion the value of being well cross trained in all parts of production while in school, is of real value in opening up a career in letting the student do what ever he or she wants or ends up in. Before college, I did not like working with lights, in college I learned to like working with them in addition to design and carpentry. Who is to say that after some stagecraft or design classes, you don’t like shaping wood or designing shows better? Given a
broad based education you can go from a carpentry gig, to a lighting gig, all the while designing a show elsewhere until you find the niche professionally you fall into. You can
whip stitch that drape your lights tore back together, or hit the sewing machine to install a tag on it.
It still is my opinion that you can learn how to use higher technology equipment on the job. You don't have to be trained in high technology equipment to get a job with a company using it, what you need to know you will be trained in. Your training gives you a
leg up on anyone wishing to use moving lights for a living, but as yet from what you convey, limits you to using them. You might be able to bypass a lot of
OJT for their use and go directly to the production part and doing shows. Great if that is all you need to know or do.
A few years back Poison came to the shop for a rehearsal set up of their set and tour gear. I was not busy that weekend and lent a
hand in constructing the set. I have never been on tour as a carpenter, but having worked as a professional in a few carpentry shops in construction of similar sets, I was able to fairly well figure it out and since I am trained as a crew chief, was able to lead the rest of the shop staff in it’s construction as well as the
production manager who had constructed it before. I was of use to the
point that I was offered the tour as it’s carpenter. If touring is your thing, having the ability to function in more than one part of production is of value. I know Full Sail offers lights and sound, and would hope that it’s basic program cross trains in both, but there is Costumes and Set also to the production part. Were it my interest to do touring anymore, I might have taken them up on the offer . That’s work I could have had in just being there as a body to lug the set around than showing qualifications to do more.
I just handed off the design for a Doctor Who convention to one of our tech people to do as a side gig. It is too low in budget for the company to provide more than gear at a discount as a favor to the production much less to provide designers on the clock. I don’t do many side gigs anymore and it did not hold my interest enough. My costs as a designer are also a
bit more than they could reasonably afford. She is already trained in programming the moving lights that will be used having learned them on the job, but from school she is also trained in design for them and the rest of the fixtures needed. Her design will be following up the synopsis I already gave it's
production manager as a favor in what would give him some ideas both in set and lights for more bang for his buck in a show.
Was it not just Wolf last week that was able to take over the design for a show while working on it? Cross training in both tech and design is useful.
Where did I go to school? I started at Elmhurst College, than went to College of DuPage before being pulled out for the war, than Illinois State University. The final school was a very good one, but one of many that are well rated for theater.
Right out of college I got a job in a union shop in the rigging and metal working area and was trained sufficiently to later become a Master Rigger at a +27
line set theater mainstage that was being converted from a hemp
house to one using
wire rope when not doing shows as a touring
house. While there given a past study in design and architecture, I was also tasked with drawing up the preliminary blue prints for the architect to sign off on in converting it’s front end a school into theater and office spaces. I was also offered various designs in both lighting and set for ballet, dance and theater. It was one of five such architecture theater design jobs I had done. Within the first six years of going pro with a good but
broad based education, I was already management for carpentry in being a
Master Carpenter and in being offered a salary staff
Production Manager position at another scene shop. I was a recognized designer in the area having been recognized
in one of the Chicago newspapers as one of the top 10 new designers to watch in the coming years. Can you see my
point about career opportunities that open up with a good
broad based training?
I became management for lighting one year into switching to it from carpentry and heading up the
hoist department for a while. I and am now recognized as an expert in this industry with lamps and electrical wiring which are my
current specialties. On lamps, manufacturers ask me to see what I think, vendors infrequently
call me to pluck my brain about them. Am I perfect yet or not in need of further training, no but I do make a well established living with this industry. Without needing to look into other advancement, thirty years from now I can retire - I don't have to worry about my knees giving out from climbing ladders or getting too old to load trucks. Full Sail will probably give you enough
leg up that when such a time comes, given the aptitude for moving lights and boards, you also don’t have to do the above, but that’s given you are still doing it or assuming the skill. I also know a tech person that is in his fifties and still just
stage hand pushing boxes about and focusing lights. He works three or more main jobs in lighting, and takes on side carpentery jobs to make a living and still has no
desk to
settle down into after all these years in the industry. I’m in my late thirties and it’s hard for me to do all that stuff much less do it every day, yet what else is there for him to be doing considering all he knows is the production end of lighting and some carpentry? If he gets injured, that’s it for this career or at least some pay for a while. I would hope that anyone in the industry with that amount of time in grade gets to become at least management, yet that would only become at best one out of 10. What happens to the rest of the tech people out there when they hit their forties and fifties? Again, Full Sail might better prepare you so some day you do find other than crew person work, given that’s what you end up doing.
Should I get board with my
current job, I can go lamp retailer, go back to carpentry and rigging, or become a TD. Does everyone change careers in mid stream? No but a significant amount of them do. I know people with acting degrees that worked carpentry for money, than left the theater to
build houses. I know others with design degrees that end up programming computers. Still others that start out welding and rigging and now run follow spot. More yet that started out touring and are now designing shows. Tech people that started their career fixing moving lights, than medical electronics, than went carpentry. Still more that never went to college, just either toured or designed and worked theater that are now lighting management and tour designers. Very dependant upon the person attempting the career, still my opinion is still leaning towards a more
broad based education.
