Hanging Order? (soft goods and Electrics)

Why are your cyc lights DS of your Traveller?
 
Generally you put things where you need them. The lighting inventory affects where lights would go to assure an even wash across the stage (or the cyc). I could possibly see the cyc lights being positioned downstage of the traveller if that's where they need to be to have enough beam spread to evenly cover the cyc -- but it'd likely also lead to issues like the traveller being closed when the cyc lights are on, leading either to weird splotched of light on the traveller, or crispy soft goods.

Legs need to be spaced wide enough apart to entrances and exits for performers and set pieces, but it also depends on the amount of soft goods you have, what other masking there is, what the architecture in the wings is like.

There are so many variables that it's really impossible to answer your question except in the most general forms.
 
I think this was a task order question, not location. The question presumes you start with a bare stage, which suggests a professional style to me. Not many high schools strip their stage after each show.

If you have electricians and carpenter crews, it's probably lights either down or upstage first with curtains and scenery opposite, and then reverse. Doesn't matter who hangs first if there is a plan, just have to stay out of each other's way.

Unrelated to what is hung first, space may require cyc lights downstage of a drop or traveler. With some cyc lights, it's possible to light cyc over batten, if all will trim. I spend a lot of time trying to find the best compromise to achieve sufficient stage depth, black drop/traveler, and lighted drop/cyc. The Selador "scraper" lighting approach was easiest but most expensive - like $50-60k just for cyc lights - but very compact. Trying to get 5-6' for efficient use of convential cycs is also tough and not cheap.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I should have mentioned this is in regard to our rep plot.

We're currently in transition with new management and I'd like to gain insight on common practice on locations of what's usually where.

My idea is cyc lights need to be far enough away for top half coverage. Traveller and border DS of those for blockage.

Common practice? Not sure. That's why I'm here. :)
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I should have mentioned this is in regard to our rep plot.

We're currently in transition with new management and I'd like to gain insight on common practice on locations of what's usually where.

My idea is cyc lights need to be far enough away for top half coverage. Traveller and border DS of those for blockage.

Common practice? Not sure. That's why I'm here. :)

Position of your cyc is determined by how much stage depth you need, have and can get away with. If ONLY using a cyc, then as far US as possible, with a blackout US of that to create a crossover US of the BO (unless you are blessed with a rear crossover hallway). Then cyc lighting location is determined by the fixture requirements to get an even wash. Open face style units (Or LED equivalents such as Altman Spectra or ETC Colorsource Cyc) require more depth then border light type units (ETC Selador comes to mind, or ColorForce) with open face style creating a more even wash IMO (I use MR16 strips as cyc lighting as I haven’t the depth). If a road house, you might need 3 or more add’l free pipes US or just DS of the cyc for painted drops. Then a scrim of some type is useful just DS of the cyc lights (we have black sharks tooth) then last legs and last border, then everything falling DS of that, system dependent.

Our black travelers (3) are all DS of our cyc at 1-2 wing, 2-3 wing and 3-4 wing locations. We can then play to black at various stage depths up to the black out drop with cyc flown.
 
My US traveller is the lineset DS of my cyc with the lights a couple further down. For dance I light the traveller all the time. Yes it is not flat and the lights create shadows and hot spots. But for dance I don't always want a white, colored or flat cyc. The black, textured surface gives me a bunch of other looks I can't get otherwise. I have never burned it with 1000w lights even doing Nutcracker where it is closed 90% of the first act. Just because it is something that was intended to stop light doesn't mean you can't light it. As for coverage of the cyc the OP states the top half of the cyc, I am assuming then that you have a ground row to cover the bottom half. Also I would question the idea of putting a curtain one lineset away from the lights, unless they are LED, that is just asking for problems.
 
Here's the line schedule for my primary house, as of last year:

# DEPTH HOUSE HANG NOTES
1 10” HOUSE CURTAIN Pewter grey split
2 1’ 4” BORDER1#1 BLACK/44’ X 6’ - Trim 19’
3 1’ 10” LEG #1 BLACK/6’ X 22’
4 2’ 4” ELECTRIC #1 Pipe trim at 23’4”
5 2’ 10”
6 3’ 10”
7 4’ 10” 16x9’ Screen moves as needed
8 5’ 10”
9 6’ 10” BORDER #2 BLACK/44’ X 6’ - Trim 18’3”
10 7’ - 10” LEG #2 BLACK/6’ X 22’
11 8’ – 10” BLACK SCRIM 23’ X 44”
12 9’ – 10” ELECTRIC #2 Pipe trim at 23’4”
13 10’ – 4”
14 10’ - 10”
15 11’ – 10” TRAVELLER BLACK VELOUR 24’ X 4
16 12’ – 10” BORDER #3 BLACK/44’ X 6’ - Trim 18’3”
17 13’ – 10” LEG # 3 BLACK/6’ X 22’
18 14’ – 10”
19 15’ – 4”
20 16’ – 4” ELECTRIC #3 Pipe trims at 23’4”
21 17’ – 4”
22 18’ – 4” BORDER # 4 BLACK/44’ X 6’ - Trim 18’3”
23 18’ – 10”
24 19’ – 10” BLACK FULL STAGE VELOUR 23’ X 44’
25 20’ – 4” FULL BLACK VELOUR NO FULLNESS
26 20’ – 10” LEG #4 BLACK/6’ X 22
27 21’ – 10” BLACK SCRIM BLACK/23’ X 44’
28 22’ – 4” ELECTRIC #4
29 22’ – 10”
30 23’ – 4” CYCLORAMA WHITE/24’ X 44’

[ Apologies for the formatting; that was copied out of the PDF ]
 
Lineset Distances.PNG

This is what the main venue I work at currently has setup.
Many times we usually have the Black Traveler on lineset 40 just in front of Cyc.
As others have said it has been used for a textured colored background. We also have many groups that want to switch between black back and cyc back.
 
Not mentioned is an orchestra shell. I can't recall a project I've worked on that doesn't have lights built into the shell but if you have to light the ensemble between the shell, that obviously impacts the rigging plot.
 
Not mentioned is an orchestra shell. I can't recall a project I've worked on that doesn't have lights built into the shell but if you have to light the ensemble between the shell, that obviously impacts the rigging plot.
For my schedule above, the ceilings on 10,20,30 are the orchestra shell/acoustical shell. They are sized and lined up that Electric #2 and Electric #3 are between the ceilings. That way we don't have additional lights built into the shell. Part of our base/repertory plot include fixtures that are primarily used for concerts with the shell.
 
For my schedule above, the ceilings on 10,20,30 are the orchestra shell/acoustical shell. They are sized and lined up that Electric #2 and Electric #3 are between the ceilings. That way we don't have additional lights built into the shell. Part of our base/repertory plot include fixtures that are primarily used for concerts with the shell.
Believe me, I understand the concept, but I always find it forces a less than ideal layout of masking and electrics. As I noted and as you demonstrate, it impacts the rigging plot, good, bad, or neutral. It also does require some work to changeover between music and drama. I'm happy that you like you're arrangements.
 
I'm happy that you like you're arrangements.

I won't say I always like the arrangement. It just makes some things easier.
I have also used this as a teaching example for students. That they must always keep the rep plot in tact. We have multiple fixtures everywhere that are specific available specials, and we push them to add lights whenever possible, they just can't touch the fixtures of the rep plot. Working with the students, we have gotten to a point where general switching between music and drama is just moving the shell. If they add fixtures, the fixtures don't hinder the concert lighting.
Luckily for us, the consultant saw this could be an issue and quoted additional sets of masking to deal with sight lines.
I will say from talking with other people in the area, I'm glad I don't have fixtures on the actual ceilings because of possible soft good damage when ceilings are stored away.
 
Not sure what the damage could be. Lights should be on tip switch, though LED is much less concern. I've just not seen the potential for damage.
 
Not sure what the damage could be. Lights should be on tip switch, though LED is much less concern. I've just not seen the potential for damage.
@BillConnerFASTC In the era when lights in shells were each powered via individual mercury wetted tip-switches, it wasn't unheard of for a switch to occasionally get jarred and a PAR lamp to remain lit in spite of a shell being fully tilted. At that point we'd normally resort to using a non-switch rated breaker to turn the PAR lamp off until the next time the shell was being flown into its performance position when we'd re-position the errant tip switch.
Toodleloo!
Ron Hebbard
 
I would be happy to have interchangeable linesets. But no, no fly system. We have a useful set of fixed position lines with grand, four border/leg/electric sets, a mid-stage traveler (sand colored, which I sometimes light with cyc, oy the blue o_O ) with an open track just upstage of that (alternate cyc position), 5th border, open pipe (for cyc), black traveler covering the crossover.

The 4th elec is about 12' away from the cyc position, and I wish there was an inexpensive way to add another electric only 4' away from the cyc, as I get good coverage with my old Colortran strips (9 cels) - and would be perfect with the new ColorSource cycs - which is the limit of throw to cyc in alternate position from 3rd elec.
 
In these days of LED cycs, running power and DMX cables across fixed rigging is very practical. That's assuming you have raw power and DMX on your last electric. Can you hang a new pipe?

Those tan drapes were popular in small multi use spaces some decades ago. I suspect the fire retardent has faded away. Something to check!

Rick, thanks for the idea. My electrics are on winches, so I at least have an easy time hanging instruments. Putting up a new pipe could be difficult, on the budget in the very least.

We recently replaced the tan drapes with IFR poly. After considering other possible colors, tan was voted in. Ah well.
 

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