Lens train functionality

Esoteric

Well-Known Member
Okay so in doing research for part 3 of my blog, I was trying to find out exactly HOW moving the lens train produces the effects it does, and exactly what the effect is that I am seeing.

I know what it does (sharpens or softens the light) but I am looking for why and how.

Anyone know where I can find this information. I searched the wiki and threads and I didn't see anything.
 
Maybe look at sites that discuss optics in general since focus is a concept that extends beyond the entertainment lighting world. Camera sites might also discuss how lens optics work.
 
Yeah, I was looking for something specifically on ERS units.

I thought with all the large brains on here someone would have a link or something.
 
The easiest way is to take the lense train out of an old ERS. Use a 6x9 and a 6x12 and you will see the effects quite well. A photometrics book mmay be useful also but I don't have one. That whole no college thing. :)
 
Hahahaha... Yeah, I know what it does, but for instance I don't know why the field gets larger and softer one way and smaller and softer when you run it the other way. And why one softer has a insanely bright hot spot and a steep fall off and the other way it is a pretty even field with a gentle fall off.
 
Perhaps an online optics tool where you could change the lenses and locations? Unfournately I don't know where one could find something like that.
 
We touched upon this question in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/8536-6x9-degree.html . Unfortunately, it seems no one has a good explanation as to what happens when light rays leave the gate of an ERS. But what we do know is that it's the distance between gate and lens(es) that's critical, which is why a 6x9 is shorter than a 6x16.

If discussing zoom (or multi-lens) fixtures, one needs the formula:
(from Mathematical Formulas for Lighting - ControlBooth )
For a two-lens system: EFL= (f1*f2)/(f1+f2-d), where EFL=Effective Focal Length, f1=Focal Length of Lens1, f2=Focal Length of Lens2, d=Distance between Lenses.

Perhaps all that needs to be said is that one uses narrow-beam fixtures for longer throw distance, and wider-beam fixtures for shorter throws.
 
Yeah, I will leave it at that and do a follow up later when I have had time to follow up with someone who knows how the optics work (or when I find my college lighting technology 301 notebook). I put all that other stuff in there already, I was curious as to what the lenses do.

Thanks guys.
 
You didn't ask for comments, so I normally wouldn't offer any, but I believe this photo, while a nice depiction, is inaccurate. Besides the caption.

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Ellipsoid reflector inside a Source4 PAR
 
You didn't ask for comments, so I normally wouldn't offer any, but I believe this photo, while a nice depiction, is inaccurate. Besides the caption.

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Ellipsoid reflector inside a Source4 PAR

In what way? It has the two focus points and shows generally how it works. The angles of incidence don't look perfect, but they look close enough.

I don't mind comments, I am just avoiding self propagandizing (a la the good suggestion by Stephanie).

In this case it is something I wanted to add to the article, but since it appears to be very Esoteric (I know, the irony) I am going without it for now.
 
Is the second focus of an ellipsoidal reflector before or after the gate? Why does it matter?--Later in your article you talk briefly about shutters working opposite, and having to insert a gobo upside-down and backwards, but don't explain the reason.

I don't mind comments, ...
Well then, since you opened the door... ;)

On the Fresnel page, you state "A Fresnel uses a spherical reflector, and thus it produces a circle of light." implying a causality that doesn't necessarily exist.

"the LCL (lamp center length, described in a future article on lamps)" wrong acronym

On to Part 3 - ERS :
"and the heat sinks that remove the heat from the light beam,"

"The absolute best feature of this unit is the aspheric lens that makes the shutter cuts appear perfectly square (a problem on all other ERS units is that their shutters appear wedge shaped when you push them in). " See pin cushion.

I'd avoid using the term "lens train" altogether, using instead lens tube or lens barrel as applicable.

" For glass gobos (called lithos " Not all glass gobos are, or are called, "lithos." LithoPatterns® is a HES copyright.

"There is the base, and then there is the barrel. The base houses the lamp, reflector, cap, shutter, and gobo slide." Since base has a pre-defined meaning, I'd use "body" instead.

"Because of a unique characteristic of ellipses, there are two focal points." I've argued this before, to no avail: Lenses have focal points, reflectors have foci, plural of focus(es).

"Now, while all ERS units are technically the same size, " I don't know what this means, but I'm pretty sure I disagree.

"but the Selecon Pacific mounts its lamp radially (see below). Because of the radial mounting of the lens, the Pacific is much more efficient about venting heat" Pacific IS NOT a radial fixture, and I think you mean "lamp" rather than "lens."

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Here's an idea (for everyone, not just Esoteric), [that may need some more cultivating]: Next time you write an article, copy it into a post on ControlBooth, click Go Advanced, Preview Post, and pay attention to the words that are highlighted by the wiki auto'bot. Make sure your use of the word is congruent with the wiki's. If not, either you've used the wrong term or the wiki is wrong. I'm not about to state that our wiki is, or will ever be, 100% accurate, but seeing as how its articles are edited and watched by industry veterans, it may be the most authoritative source.

You then can just cancel out of the post without actually posting. Note that the wiki will only flag a term the first time it's used, so you may need to copy/check a paragraph at a time. Note also the the 'bot only catches the singular form of terms (we're working on a way to flag plurals in the next upgrade).

What does everyone think of this idea? Cheating? You use spell and grammar check, don't you? Why not a glossary/"jargon" check?
 
Thanks man, some of those are just typos. I need a secretary. Or I need to quit typing these things at 2:00AM.

I did not mean to try and make a casual relationship even though that is what my sentence actually said.

Oh, so the second focal point is after the gate, which is why the gobo must be inserted upside down? Very cool.

Lens tube, got it. Just another term I was taught wrong I suppose. Same thing with glass gobos, I was taught they were all called lithos (of course this was when glass gobos only really existed in moving lights).

You are totally right about foci.

Okay, how is the pacific not a radial fixture? It isn't an axial fixture, what is it?

Thanks for the clue on the Wiki. I trust the Wiki here, which is why it is the first place I looked for information about the lens train functionality, unfortunately there is none......
 
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Hahahaha... Yeah, I know what it does, but for instance I don't know why the field gets larger and softer one way and smaller and softer when you run it the other way. And why one softer has a insanely bright hot spot and a steep fall off and the other way it is a pretty even field with a gentle fall off.
I realize you know how it works but if you recreate the ERS in large scale it may make demonstrations easier.
 
Does a source four par use a parabolic reflector?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

That is a very good question. I would assume so, but that is something I am going to have to research when I do my article on Source4 PARs (which will be the 5th and final part of the series). But I am confused as to what that has to do with the issue at hand.
 
Derek was pointing out that you did call it a par in the caption

"Ellipsoid reflector inside a Source4 PAR"

I totally misread the "besides the caption" part of his post. *lol* Thank you for pointing that out. I really need to stop writing these things at 2:00AM.
 
The Source Four Par does use a parabolic reflector.

Good question about the Selecon Pacific. Technically, an axial ellipsoidal is so-called because the lamp is mounted 'on axis' with the reflector. While the Selecon Pacific's lamp and reflector are not physically axial to the optics (90 degrees perpendicular, actually), the cold mirror positions the reflected light on axis with the optics. The lamp still protrudes through the center of the reflector, while a 'radial' ellipsoidal sees the lamp entering at the radius of the optics through the side of the reflector.

***I always thought "axial" referred to within the same axis as the optics (lenses), but the WIKI states that axial means within the same axis as the reflector. By this definition, the Selecon Pacific is an axial ellipsoidal.
 
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