Lighting Design for a wedding

[Shawncfer]

Another thing. If I do get the little PD as MSTAYLOR recommended, and I have to tie it in, Im sure I have to get an electrician to tie it in, and also strike it at the end of the night. Am I right about that? And how do I go about doing that?

And that distro is 1phase, what if the disconnect is 3phase? Is that something I should worry about? Or something an electrician can take care of easily?

 

[bishopthomas]

From what the lady told me, It's one big room that is separated into 3 rooms with those folding wall things. And each individual room is being run on 3 separate 20amp circuits. So since the wedding reception is going to be all three rooms combined (theyre pushing the walls back) then that means only 3 circuits in total.

No, that would mean 9 20A circuits. Three times three equals nine.

 

[Anvilx]

Not necessarily an electrician but a qualified person needs to tie in. If you don't feel comfortable doing it then DON'T do it. Talk to whom ever you are renting the distro from and see if they might tie it in for you.

 

[bishopthomas]

Another thing. If I do get the little PD as MSTAYLOR recommended, and I have to tie it in, Im sure I have to get an electrician to tie it in, and also strike it at the end of the night. Am I right about that? And how do I go about doing that?

And that distro is 1phase, what if the disconnect is 3phase? Is that something I should worry about? Or something an electrician can take care of easily?

Since you are asking these questions, yes, you will need to have an electrician tie you in. Take a look at the service panel (and maybe have the electrician there with you) to know what kind of connection you need. I doubt it will be cam, probably bare wire tails, but it could really be anything (CS6365, or California, connectors are gaining more popularity in venues). Whatever it is you'll need to be able to mate with it so look at it on your site survey. Of course, if you actually have 9 20A circuits distributed in the room then you won't even need to tie in a distro.

If they have 3 phase available and your PD is only single then simply don't use the blue leg.

 

[Footer]

From what the lady told me, It's one big room that is separated into 3 rooms with those folding wall things. And each individual room is being run on 3 separate 20amp circuits. So since the wedding reception is going to be all three rooms combined (theyre pushing the walls back) then that means only 3 circuits in total.

That would kind of amaze me if that was true. A space that has airwalls and a disconnect would probably be 3 circuits per "room", so 9 total might be a little more on par. You will find out soon. If you need to rent a small doghouse distro, go for it. Check to see what you will need to do to connect to their disconnect (cams, bare ends, turnarounds). If power is an issue and you are going to run cables anyway, you could always go with a colorblast 12 setup. It would require a home run for each fixture, but at least its a smaller cable. The entire thing can be ran on a single circuit with room to spare. Any rental house worth their salt will have a colorblast 12 system with 12 units, cable, and power supply all sitting in a case somewhere. You will need to rent some extra cable but thats not a huge deal. You should be able to pick that up for a day rental for 200 bucks.

 

[BillESC]

Sounds as though there is plenty of power per room. If that were not the case, LED based lighting would be the ticket.

With 4,000 lux at a meter fixtures renting for under $ 20.00 a week its hard to justify PD rental and the associated cabling.

 

[Shawncfer]

No, that would mean 9 20A circuits. Three times three equals nine.

I mean theres one circuit per mini-room and 3 mini rooms. So 3 all together

 

[Shawncfer]

Since you are asking these questions, yes, you will need to have an electrician tie you in.
....
If they have 3 phase available and your PD is only single then simply don't use the blue leg.

I've tied in camlock before plenty of times so I'm okay with that. If it isn't camlock however, do I just call a local electrician? Or does it have to be someone special? And how much am I looking at as a charge for tieing it in? On average of course.

As far as the LEDs go, the rental company doesn't have any from what I've heard.

 

[Footer]

I've tied in camlock before plenty of times so I'm okay with that. If it isn't camlock however, do I just call a local electrician? Or does it have to be someone special? And how much am I looking at as a charge for tieing it in? On average of course.

As far as the LEDs go, the rental company doesn't have any from what I've heard.

Ask to hotel, they might have a person that does it if it is bare end. There might be a fee associated with this person, there might not be. I tend to be a believer that if you have cams, you can tie in yourself unless the venue says no, bare end I believe should always be done by the venue.

.....and if you are limited on power, might be time to try a different rental company....

 

[jeffsw6]

I tend to be a believer that if you have cams, you can tie in yourself unless the venue says no, bare end I believe should always be done by the venue.

Theater sparkies would refer you to 520.53(P), which forbids anyone other than qualified personnel from connecting cam-lock supplies in theaters and several other kinds of spaces.

The reason novices should not connect cam-lock supplies is simple; they could do it wrong or in the wrong order, and cause significant equipment damage, injury, or death.

Every time I read another post by the OP, I become more convinced that he is waiting for someone to tell him that he is not capable of doing the job, bid too low, or whatever. I think he should subcontract the whole thing to another person or company. I don't mean to insult the guy, but almost every post he has written reads like someone looking for an excuse to bail on the job or go back to the customer for much more money so he can hire some help.

I'll say it -- Shawn, I believe you made a mistake by committing to this job, and should hire some outside help or bow out gracefully. Either be resourceful, learn some new things, do the job, and gain confidence in your abilities; or get out of the way so the couple can hire someone else.

 

[len]

I've tied in camlock before plenty of times so I'm okay with that. If it isn't camlock however, do I just call a local electrician? Or does it have to be someone special? And how much am I looking at as a charge for tieing it in? On average of course.

As far as the LEDs go, the rental company doesn't have any from what I've heard.

Just because you're capable doesn't mean they'll let you. If the hotel is big enough to have a disconnect, they'll have an engineer on staff and that person will be the one to do a tie-in. But you're getting ahead of yourself. Go to the hotel's website and look for info on the room dimensions, etc. There may be info on power, etc., too, but I doubt it. Then take a look around the actual room. Chances are you'll be fine with wall power, which will also mean no tie-in, no big rentals, and shorter cable runs. Hotels don't like cable over doorways. Not for the guests, and not for the kitchen, either. So plan accordingly. And make sure to have some 4" gaff or stage tape. 4" will save you time and be more secure.

 

[bishopthomas]

Every time I read another post by the OP, I become more convinced that he is waiting for someone to tell him that he is not capable of doing the job, bid too low, or whatever...
I'll say it -- Shawn, I believe you made a mistake by committing to this job, and should hire some outside help or bow out gracefully.

I completely agree with everything here. Shawn, you are out of your league here and if you care at all about the couple (and your reputation) then you will either sub out this work or turn it down. Control Booth is a great place for learning and discussions, but it does not replace practical experience. Now hire out this job, and shadow them if they'll allow. That's really your best option for yourself and the couple.

 

[cpf]

I believe the point has now been made, can we agree to not continue posting more renditions of it?

 

[gafftaper]

CPF is right. Point made Shawn is over his head. I'm sure he feels the heat of his situation, and doesn't need it rubbed in any further.

I have edited some of the posts in this thread that when added together were starting to feel like piling on.

 

[mstaylor]

You say you will have a helper to assist you in the set-up. Would it be possible to hire a tech that is fairly experienced that can help lead this operation? This is not difficult thing if it is properly planned. It can be an unmitigated disaster if you show up and don't have what is needed. Go look at the room and have a list of things that needs answers. Once you have to answers then come back and see if we can help you. If it still seems like it is going to have issues, then you can back out.
Wall sockets:
How many are there?
How are they circuited?
How much is going to available, not used by other contractors.
Tie-in
Does it exist?
What type of tap, bare wire or cams?
Who does the tap and is there a fee?
Yellow Jackets:
Are they allowed in doorways or do you have to bridge over doors?

 

[Shawncfer]

You say you will have a helper to assist you in the set-up. Would it be possible to hire a tech that is fairly experienced that can help lead this operation?

That's something I hadn't thought about. Thats a great idea! I'll be sure to let you know tomorrow what I find out.

 

[shiben]

CPF is right. Point made Shawn is over his head. I'm sure he feels the heat of his situation, and doesn't need it rubbed in any further.

I have edited some of the posts in this thread that when added together were starting to feel like piling on.

Just a note from another thread, Shawn appears to be helping out a buddy, probably for not a lot or even no coin, so subbing out is probably not a good option. It sounds like the tie in will not be an issue, because the hotel has a guy that does it, no matter if its a 10 year old or an ETCP certified Entertainment Electrician (my guess is insurance, but whatever). It also sounds like his buddy is pretty well aware that its a work in progress. Also, I take a bit of issue with saying its totally out of one person's leauge without knowing the full situation. Honestly, once I heard the rest of what was going on, it seems like a fairly breezy little project. Its basically plugging in some lights with other things going on, when it comes down to it, and I highly doubt its actually OVER Shawn's head, it just might feel like it.

Anyhow, on to the topic. This is kind of a summary of the really good bits that I have seen on this forum, just for some reference now that we are into multiple pages and have had some less useful posts. Anyhow: I see no reason why renting a small PD, which it sounds like the venue will be tying in no matter how qualified of a person you bring along, enough to get you as many circuits as your lights require. Then, take a look at the requirements that mstaylor laid out in this post, specifically the bit about over the doors.

You say you will have a helper to assist you in the set-up. Would it be possible to hire a tech that is fairly experienced that can help lead this operation? This is not difficult thing if it is properly planned. It can be an unmitigated disaster if you show up and don't have what is needed. Go look at the room and have a list of things that needs answers. Once you have to answers then come back and see if we can help you. If it still seems like it is going to have issues, then you can back out.
Wall sockets:
How many are there?
How are they circuited?
How much is going to available, not used by other contractors.
Tie-in
Does it exist?
What type of tap, bare wire or cams?
Who does the tap and is there a fee?
Yellow Jackets:
Are they allowed in doorways or do you have to bridge over doors?

When you do a site survey, use a tape, measure each run you need to make, and rent/buy/in some other way come up with that much 12/3 SO (or if they allow 14/3, might be cheaper), or whatever cable the local code requires. Someone more knowledgable about the NEC can probably point you in the direction to find out what you need to do in that regard. Also, remember if the run is over a certain length, you need to up the guage, so remember to consider that. Once you have all this, make a fairly educated guess as to how long the entire process will take, maybe practice a bit, if you have time and space for it, get yourself some gaff tape, and get some nice blacks on (like the kind with a collar that has little plastic tabby thinggies in it and pants that dont have cargos!) and go to town on it when the hotel allows you in, or whenever load in needs to start. Honestly, the set up seems pretty simple, the only complication being power, and a lot of places have issues like that. See the entire time as experience, try and have fun, and if you do it all right, your buddy will never know how stressful this all was for you. I would avoid telling him, maybe if it was particularly fun tell him he can pay you with a 24 pack (keep it legal kids, if your not 21, get yourself some dew) after the honeymoon, and you two hang out or something (my prefered method of compensation when doing jobs for friends).

Some advice on being over your head from someone who lives below water: Make sure you sleep enough. I dont, and it eventually affects my work quality or my health. Try and keep the stress down, relax, play some xbox and take out anger on video game monsters. Ask questions! If there is something you dont understand, and need a little advice, we can probably help you with smaller, non-local code complicance questions. For example, need a cheap and easy floor base? I have built dozens and can help no problems. Again, based on your post in the OT forum, I think this project will be a good learnign experience, with no truly rankled client on the other end who is expecting a Len level job from a college kid, and you learn what you need to. Try not to feel too out of your leauge, just a little out, which is where learning happens.

 

[jeffsw6]

Just a note from another thread, Shawn appears to be helping out a buddy, probably for not a lot or even no coin

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[shiben]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Your missing the point. Everyone who was saying "your gonna blow this contract" and "your ruining your reputation as a decent contractor" is probably overreacting. I help out my buddies with light tech work all the time (throw up a few PARs in their basement for their band, stuff like that), and usually they are thrilled to get anything, because they thought that nothing could be done for them because they had no money.

 

[mstaylor]

On your list of questions, find out how close you can get with the gear. Hotel gigs are notorious for making you carry stuff 10 miles to get to the room. That will effect your load-in time.