I didn't know I was getting a reputation around here. At least not that kind of reputation.
Lighting Design for a wedding
- Thread starterShawncfer
- Start date
I didn't know I was getting a reputation around here. At least not that kind of reputation.
Well I had my meeting today. And here is what I found out:
#1.. The groom doesn't give a Sh*t about this wedding and leaves everything up to his wife. (I'm actually friends with the wife BTW. Old High school friend)
#2.. The Bride actually wants a lot more than anticipated originally. She showed me some pictures before and some dimensions of the ballroom. In the pics she showed me the lights were all up lights were pretty spread apart. Well she wants them really close together with hardly any gap in between the light. So we upgraded from the 12 or 14 I said before, to 24 Pars (300w) and 1 S4 (575w) with a custom Gobo.
#3..
Wall sockets:
How many are there? The room is 117' X 52' X 16'. On the long walls there are 4 outlets on each side, and on the short walls 3 on each side. Making up for a total of 14 outlet boxes with 28 total sockets.
How are they circuited? Every 2 are circuited together. So a total of 7 circuits with 20amps each
How much is going to available, not used by other contractors. I wasn't able to find that out at all. But I do know they only things that will be consuming electricity in that room are the DJ and a chocolate fountain.
Tie-in:
Does it exist? Yes, Single Phase
What type of tap, bare wire or cams? Bare wire
Who does the tap and is there a fee? The hotel does the tap for free
Yellow Jackets: .....ugh?
Are they allowed in doorways or do you have to bridge over doors? Theres only one main door that will be used and I wont have to cross over it or any door for that matter.
#4... to the how far do I have to cary the crap question, Theres actually a hallway right behind the ballroom where the disconnect and kitchen and all that shenanigans are. And on the other side of the hallway is a door that has a loading dock for a uhaul or whatever. So about 8 feet
#5... To people who have said the Par cans will be to hot you don't want kids touching them. The bride told me: "I've already put on the invitations no kids under the age of (cant remember). But at the same time I'm sure some will sneak their way in. So I'll just make an announcement and if they get burned then I don't care." haha.
#6... I called a couple of companies in San Antonio and only found one place that rents LEDS, and they're pannels, not like LED pars. And they're 25 bucks each. And from what the guy was saying, you have to have dmx connected, you cant just assign a color... So whatever to that idea. It would end up costing more.
#7... The head electrician of the hotel told me they actually have they don't have a distro to use. However, they have these Junction boxes the outlets on them attatched to a long cable thats hooked up to a breaker right outside (in that long hallway) and they use them if more power is ever needed that way they can just run it to where it needs to go. So I wouldn't even need a distro.
#8... I got kinda worried when I noticed it was all carpet. But the rental company told me you cant rent pars with the floorbases already on them so it's not resting on the actual carpet.
That's pretty much it. I've rented 24pars, 140' of cable, a S4, a floor boom, and a gobo holder. As well as Buying the custom gobo, 4 sheets of the gel they wanted, and yeah. Total is running me $430. How does that sound?
Oh and another question. The gobo they want is going to be hitting where the dancefloor is. So I need to get it keystoned. Well The boom with be 12' high, and at about a 60 degree angle to take a guess. Hitting about 25' away from the bottom of the boom. What degree do you think I should get this S4?
#1.. The groom doesn't give a Sh*t about this wedding and leaves everything up to his wife. (I'm actually friends with the wife BTW. Old High school friend)
#2.. The Bride actually wants a lot more than anticipated originally. She showed me some pictures before and some dimensions of the ballroom. In the pics she showed me the lights were all up lights were pretty spread apart. Well she wants them really close together with hardly any gap in between the light. So we upgraded from the 12 or 14 I said before, to 24 Pars (300w) and 1 S4 (575w) with a custom Gobo.
#3..
Wall sockets:
How many are there? The room is 117' X 52' X 16'. On the long walls there are 4 outlets on each side, and on the short walls 3 on each side. Making up for a total of 14 outlet boxes with 28 total sockets.
How are they circuited? Every 2 are circuited together. So a total of 7 circuits with 20amps each
How much is going to available, not used by other contractors. I wasn't able to find that out at all. But I do know they only things that will be consuming electricity in that room are the DJ and a chocolate fountain.
Tie-in:
Does it exist? Yes, Single Phase
What type of tap, bare wire or cams? Bare wire
Who does the tap and is there a fee? The hotel does the tap for free
Yellow Jackets: .....ugh?
Are they allowed in doorways or do you have to bridge over doors? Theres only one main door that will be used and I wont have to cross over it or any door for that matter.
#4... to the how far do I have to cary the crap question, Theres actually a hallway right behind the ballroom where the disconnect and kitchen and all that shenanigans are. And on the other side of the hallway is a door that has a loading dock for a uhaul or whatever. So about 8 feet
#5... To people who have said the Par cans will be to hot you don't want kids touching them. The bride told me: "I've already put on the invitations no kids under the age of (cant remember). But at the same time I'm sure some will sneak their way in. So I'll just make an announcement and if they get burned then I don't care." haha.
#6... I called a couple of companies in San Antonio and only found one place that rents LEDS, and they're pannels, not like LED pars. And they're 25 bucks each. And from what the guy was saying, you have to have dmx connected, you cant just assign a color... So whatever to that idea. It would end up costing more.
#7... The head electrician of the hotel told me they actually have they don't have a distro to use. However, they have these Junction boxes the outlets on them attatched to a long cable thats hooked up to a breaker right outside (in that long hallway) and they use them if more power is ever needed that way they can just run it to where it needs to go. So I wouldn't even need a distro.
#8... I got kinda worried when I noticed it was all carpet. But the rental company told me you cant rent pars with the floorbases already on them so it's not resting on the actual carpet.
That's pretty much it. I've rented 24pars, 140' of cable, a S4, a floor boom, and a gobo holder. As well as Buying the custom gobo, 4 sheets of the gel they wanted, and yeah. Total is running me $430. How does that sound?
Oh and another question. The gobo they want is going to be hitting where the dancefloor is. So I need to get it keystoned. Well The boom with be 12' high, and at about a 60 degree angle to take a guess. Hitting about 25' away from the bottom of the boom. What degree do you think I should get this S4?
BillESC
Well-Known Member
Apollo does an excellent job keystoning custom gobos. You've offered height and distance which is all that's required. The only thing missing is the artwork! LOL
What size pars? I'm guessing from the 4 sheets of gel, you're using Par56's since you can get 6 cuts per sheet. Are they lamped at 300 or 500 watts?, what beam spread?
What size pars? I'm guessing from the 4 sheets of gel, you're using Par56's since you can get 6 cuts per sheet. Are they lamped at 300 or 500 watts?, what beam spread?
Sounds like you have things under control. I would caution you about only having 140' of cable. For these kinds of events I like to have a 5', 10' and 20' per light. This way I can always use the shortest length cable I can per fixture. That will cut down on extra cable making the setup look cluttered. (That would be 550' of power cable)
Well the outlets were placed in great places when they planned this room. And just in case, I have a lot of SOOW cable at my house. And some extra eddisons laying around. As well as the hotel has lots as well as a lot of twofers!
This is pretty normal. It's not that the groom doesn't care, it's a culture thing. Brides and their friends plan most aspects of weddings and they enjoy sitting around together discussing their ideas. Grooms might have an opinion or two, but grooms don't really solicit input from their buddies and so they have less less interest in many of the decisions.
With the additional fixtures, you are up to 4 circuits now. I would make sure you have enough cable so you do not need to use the two circuits nearest the DJ, or call the DJ and ask him to work out using some of the hotel's portable quad boxes from that panel in the hallway for his electrical needs. If the DJ expects more than one or two circuits to be available for him, he will probably go through the same process as you and check things out with the hotel event planner. Probably.
If the chocolate fountain trips a breaker when it first starts up, just turn off a few lights on its circuit and turn them back on later; it takes more power to initially heat the chocolate to a flowing temperature than it does to keep it warm once it's going.
They actually havent found a DJ yet, so I told them as soon as they do to put me in contact with them so we can discuss power issues.
Thanks! Note taken
The plan is that the DJ will be setup right infront of the dance floor with the dance floor lights and stuff. So Yeah, I'm going to put the boom right next to DJ table so it's not akward. I was thinking about using a 50 degree. How does that sound? It's going to be 12 feet high and a 25ft throw. What do you think?
A 50 seems a bit too wide to me, but it depends on how big or bright you want it to be. Using a S4-50 @ 575W at 12' high and 25' away from the focus point, you're only going to get around 40 footcandles, and the beam diameter will be about 16 feet. Using a S4-36, your beam diameter drops down to 11 feet and you'll have about 90 footcandles. If you went even further down to a 26 degree, your beam diameter drops down to 7 feet and you should be getting upward of 180 footcandles. Based on these figures, the 36 seems like the best option in my opinion, but keep reading.
Because of the relatively extreme angle the light will be making with the floor, I think getting a perfectly sharp edge across the entire gobo will be difficult, if not impossible. When you focus the nearest edge to sharp, it's very possible that the far edge of the pattern will go soft. I can't say exactly how bad it will be, but whether this is acceptable or unacceptable is up to you and your client. One option might be to rent two Source Fours and get two custom gobos made each with half of the image, then focus them next to eachother to make them look like one. I have done this in situations when having perfectly sharp text was critical. However, this will obviously increase your costs as you need to buy two custom gobos.
Because it uses two lenses instead of one, the Source Four 36 degree is generally not able to focus as tack sharp as something like a 26. Since you're already going to be fighting to keep your image as sharp as possible, starting out with a softer lens tube seems like it's just hurting you even more. With everything else constant, the 26 will be able to focus to a noticeably sharper edge than a 36. It really comes down to what is more important to you and your client - having the image larger, or having the image tack sharp (or as tack sharp as you can get it). I doubt your rental house would have them, but if you can get your hands on an EDLT (Enhanced Definition Lens Tube), you would be even better off.
Hope that helps!
Les
Well-Known Member
A little advice on the pars.
If you can buy par 38's for less than the rental of 300w pars, go for it. Par 38's are plenty bright enough for wedding uplights, and you'll find yourself using them again and again -- meaning they will essentially pay themselves off eventually. You can lamp them up to 150w or lamp them down to 40w. Heck, you could put CFL's in them (if no dimming is required).
Check reputable ebay sellers for par 38's. You can get 8 for about $100, sometimes with free shipping. Save the rentals for larger ticket items.
Also, plan for everything and then some, but don't OVERTHINK it or go overkill. Usually you don't need full range dimming on uplights. On par 38's, you could just plug each in to a tabletop lamp dimmer for $10 each. I've found myself bringing in a boatload of gear to weddings, only to find myself actually needing half of it. K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Silly)
I have found that Wiremold cable paths can be a friend, but be sure to relax them in the heat after unpacking because they are sold in coils and can be too stiff to lie flat at first. A 5' Wiremold cable path is kind of pricey at about $10, but I use them a lot (but only good for 2 #16 cords each). Go one step further and place small commercial floor mats (taped together from the bottom if a long run is needed) over them if they are in high traffic areas.
If you can buy par 38's for less than the rental of 300w pars, go for it. Par 38's are plenty bright enough for wedding uplights, and you'll find yourself using them again and again -- meaning they will essentially pay themselves off eventually. You can lamp them up to 150w or lamp them down to 40w. Heck, you could put CFL's in them (if no dimming is required).
Check reputable ebay sellers for par 38's. You can get 8 for about $100, sometimes with free shipping. Save the rentals for larger ticket items.
Also, plan for everything and then some, but don't OVERTHINK it or go overkill. Usually you don't need full range dimming on uplights. On par 38's, you could just plug each in to a tabletop lamp dimmer for $10 each. I've found myself bringing in a boatload of gear to weddings, only to find myself actually needing half of it. K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Silly)
I have found that Wiremold cable paths can be a friend, but be sure to relax them in the heat after unpacking because they are sold in coils and can be too stiff to lie flat at first. A 5' Wiremold cable path is kind of pricey at about $10, but I use them a lot (but only good for 2 #16 cords each). Go one step further and place small commercial floor mats (taped together from the bottom if a long run is needed) over them if they are in high traffic areas.
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shiben
Well-Known Member
I would reccomend against this. PAR 38s are so dim, unless your lighting something in a garage, they are really not bright enough. Not sure how DJs get enough output with them... PAR 56s would be my drug of choice if I had to do it again, and lamp up as high as possible. If something is gonna get gelled, a 38 wont cut the mustard, IMO.
Les
Well-Known Member
They've always cut the mustard for me, but of course, we all have different situations and experiences so YMMV. You can get 250w par 38 lamps, but make sure they're rated for this lamp. At that point you'd might as well go with 56's.
I'll tell you what else makes an effective (but unique) uplighting effect. Pinspots. They're cheap, low voltage, low wattage, and they're bright.
This was for a company party:
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Here are some suggestions and comments you might want to think carefully about
IMHO I would NEVER use Standard Pars mounted on floor stands all around a room during a wedding. First of all they get hot, second someone is very likely to kick them or put some package or something near them and you are going to have someone get burned or start a fire
the whole move to up lighting on a temporary basis is feasible only with LED fixtures
Just consider 24 pars etc are going to create 8 thousand watts of mainly HEAT.
In addition the really cool uplighting effects all have the colors change during the event from arrival, eating, dancing etc
I would strongly suggest that you rent led's
Sharyn
IMHO I would NEVER use Standard Pars mounted on floor stands all around a room during a wedding. First of all they get hot, second someone is very likely to kick them or put some package or something near them and you are going to have someone get burned or start a fire
the whole move to up lighting on a temporary basis is feasible only with LED fixtures
Just consider 24 pars etc are going to create 8 thousand watts of mainly HEAT.
In addition the really cool uplighting effects all have the colors change during the event from arrival, eating, dancing etc
I would strongly suggest that you rent led's
Sharyn
shiben
Well-Known Member
I also would prefer LEDs, if you want to buy, the ColorKey 10mm PAR64 ones are decent and only run like 150 bucks. We got 8 of them for a show that was running around campus, and they would do pretty well if you can afford the upfront.
I forgot they made them up to 250W in PAR 38s. We have ones from bulbamerica with 150W suckers and they are just terribly dim, worked well for what we were doing but once we got any gel on them they were not really bright enough... Might be that we were trying to make theatre not light some walls for a wedding... Good point with the pinspots though, cheap and effective!
I forgot they made them up to 250W in PAR 38s. We have ones from bulbamerica with 150W suckers and they are just terribly dim, worked well for what we were doing but once we got any gel on them they were not really bright enough... Might be that we were trying to make theatre not light some walls for a wedding... Good point with the pinspots though, cheap and effective!
Les
Well-Known Member
True on the par 38's. When I buy par 38 lamps, I always spring for the halogen ones. The incandescent style are dim. You can also get KNSP (Kinda Narrow Spot) lamps for par 38's that will give you a little more punch and not so much flare. I keep both styles in stock depending on what I'm lighting.
I looooove my pinspots. You have to tape the gel on and they shouldn't be dimmed, but they're a wonderful dramatic effect. I screwed all my par cans and pinspots on to 2x6x6 blocks painted black as floor bases and it works pretty well.
OP, if you start doing weddings as a side gig, I recommend purchasing fixtures with as low power consumption as possible. Not every venue will have a place to tie in, or even very many wall outlets. I've done a lot of weddings in clubhouses and community centers where this is usually the case. If you buy ellipsoidals for this purpose, go with the Altman Micro Ellipse. They're small and only use 75w. They throw a pretty decent beam too. Par 16's are fun toys, and I have also found myself using residential uplights for smaller gigs. (I'm thinking ahead here -- seems like you've got this event pretty well set).
I'm actually lighting a show right now at Theatre 3 in Dallas with par 38's. They have a small basement space called "Theatre Too" which has an extremely low grid (8'). It's possible, but MAN I wish they had some inkies and micro ellipses in there instead!
I used to have a couple of ellipsoidal adapters that fit in to the gel frame of a par 38. They were basically the front end of an Altman 3.5Q. They were unique and very effective. I wish I knew what happened to them, who made them and where I could get some! These were different than the Altman Picture Frame Adapter for the 3" inkie. Something tells me that they were originally an entire light fixture, but they did work well, believe it or not!
shiben
Well-Known Member
True on the par 38's. When I buy par 38 lamps, I always spring for the halogen ones. The incandescent style are dim. You can also get KNSP (Kinda Narrow Spot) lamps for par 38's that will give you a little more punch and not so much flare. I keep both styles in stock depending on what I'm lighting.
I looooove my pinspots. You have to tape the gel on and they shouldn't be dimmed, but they're a wonderful dramatic effect. I screwed all my par cans and pinspots on to 2x6x6 blocks painted black as floor bases and it works pretty well.
OP, if you start doing weddings as a side gig, I recommend purchasing fixtures with as low power consumption as possible. Not every venue will have a place to tie in, or even very many wall outlets. I've done a lot of weddings in clubhouses and community centers where this is usually the case. If you buy ellipsoidals for this purpose, go with the Altman Micro Ellipse. They're small and only use 75w. They throw a pretty decent beam too. Par 16's are fun toys, and I have also found myself using residential uplights for smaller gigs. (I'm thinking ahead here -- seems like you've got this event pretty well set).
I'm actually lighting a show right now at Theatre 3 in Dallas with par 38's. They have a small basement space called "Theatre Too" which has an extremely low grid (8'). It's possible, but MAN I wish they had some inkies and micro ellipses in there instead!
I used to have a couple of ellipsoidal adapters that fit in to the gel frame of a par 38. They were basically the front end of an Altman 3.5Q. They were unique and very effective. I wish I knew what happened to them, who made them and where I could get some! These were different than the Altman Picture Frame Adapter for the 3" inkie. Something tells me that they were originally an entire light fixture, but they did work well, believe it or not!
As someone who just finished lighting a show with an eclectic mix of Source 4 750s, Source 4 575s, Source 4 375s, 6" Fresnellites, PAR 38s, PAR 20s, PAR EAs, PAR 16s and LED PAR 64s, It can be rather frusturating. However, PAR 38s are pretty cool for some other things I am working on, such as a theatre group that does plays in a garage (the T-Stands that DJs tend to use are great for this), along with some lobby display things. Les, if you can find out who made and where you can get an ellipsoidal adapter for a PAR 38, I will be happy for long time! had WAY too much trouble trying to match a rack of PAR 38s to blend with texture from a Source 4. Do the inkies work well as a replacement for a PAR 38/make better light?
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